Winston-Salem Journal LTE's 11/30/11

A nightmare
The American dream is now a nightmare. More than 46 million live in poverty, 50 million have no medical insurance, and 45 million receive food stamps. Millions are unemployed and likely will remain so. Retirement for some is questionable; for many, it will be an impossible dream.
The politics of greed, bigotry, faux Christian values and voodoo economics conspire against tax increases for the wealthy and social welfare for the needy. Wall Street insiders and CEOs pocket more in yearly bonuses than most will amass in a lifetime of labor. Jobs are transferred offshore to lower costs, and workers are laid off to boost profits.
Many government representatives are little more than grotesque shills for powerful entities, working tirelessly to prevent revenue increases, curtail benefits, derail health-care reform and squash workplace and environmental regulations. They sign pledges placing higher allegiance to partisan dogma than to welfare of country. Greed is touted as good; dissent derided as class envy.
And enter, stage far-right, narcissistic ignoramuses running for president, who should be laughed off the public podium yet are favored by a disconcertingly large number that ignorantly vote against their own best interests. The respectable, fiscally responsible conservatives of old have been replaced by mean-spirited ideologues spouting Ayn Rand platitudes while opposing anything that helps the masses. They deliver loaves for the privileged few while dropping crumbs to the many.
Welcome to the new Gilded Age. And try to enjoy the crumbs. If they have their way, crumbs will be all we will get.

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JOHN McHAFFIE
Winston-Salem

Undemocratic
The Occupy Wall Street movement shows that many Americans have come to recognize the truth of what Teddy Roosevelt observed when he declared that "we must drive the special interests out of politics." Today the concentration of income and wealth among the top 1 percent of our society makes us a democracy in name only. Big corporations undermine the economic well-being of working people by seeking profits through offshore jobs, destroying unions, paying politicians to slash corporate taxes and placing profits over the protection of our environment as oil, gas and coal companies have done by poisoning our air, water and food as well as ignoring their own contribution to climate change, which is fast creating a bleak future for our children and grandchildren.
Unrestrained capitalism is inherently undemocratic. We Americans have now learned that when big corporations and wealthy individuals give politicians in both the major political parties millions in campaign contributions, the top 1 percent gets what it wants. Even though we concerned Americans speak out, write, advocate, petition, plead, even pray, we have no influence. We go unheard. But the OWS has begun a movement in which we average citizens can reclaim our legitimate democratic power.
We must reestablish the peoples' power at both the state and federal levels by strengthening unions, setting up workers' councils, requiring average investors to have seats on boards of corporations, and establishing a public-financed campaign system. Private sources of campaign finances must be limited with contributors publicly identified.

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STANTON TEFFT
Winston-Salem

Common sense
I just wanted to say a huge "Amen!" to the Nov. 27 guest column "What's happened to common sense, South?" by Clint Johnson. I think we could include not only the South but the entire nation. We are, as a nation, dumbing down so fast it makes my head spin.

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BRENDA GROSE
Kernersville

No common sense
In his guest column "What's happened to common sense, South?" (Nov. 27), Clint Johnson manages to prove either that he has no common sense or that it isn't as valuable a commodity as he thinks.
His flippant suggestion for the Occupy groups — to volunteer at homeless shelters — which, incidentally, Johnson himself doesn't seem overly eager to do — sure does put those nuts in their place, I guess — the place Johnson would like them to be, that is. But it does nothing to solve the problems they're demonstrating against. It doesn't provide them with jobs with decent salaries, and it solves no inequalities in our financial system. It will only familiarize them with the home that the top 1 percent in the nation would like to provide them.
I guess to Johnson, "common sense" means distracting everybody from the real problems with self-righteous judgments passing for cheap humor.

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MACK FERGUSON
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TU 11/29/11

Eligible to vote
While watching the violent and destructive rampage of the irresponsible, uninformed and immature Penn State students who rioted after Joe Paterno was fired ("Paterno is fired," Nov. 10), a troubling and chilling thought came to my mind: These individuals are eligible to vote. They are a part of the uninformed mass that elects the inept few. Not yet mature enough to think for themselves, they simply follow along with whatever wind may be blowing at that time.
These are the type who helped elect Barack Obama, and after three years, they still haven't figured it out.
May the Lord save America from the influence of such.

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HOWELL D. JACKSON
Walkertown

Laughable claims
Michael Gerson in his column "Occupy protesters discrediting radicalism" (Nov. 9) says it is laughable to compare the tea party movement to the Occupy movement. Yes, it is, but it is more laughable for him to say that the tea party "venerates American political institutions" and its "goal is democratic influence."
And he implies that the Occupy movement is anti-American. The one-time tea-party favorite presidential hopeful, Gov. Rick Perry, vilified Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. If he gets to Washington, he wants to make the federal government inconsequential.
Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., would virtually abolish Medicare. The top priorities of the tea-party-elected radical governors of Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida were to strip government employees' collective-bargaining rights, cut public-education spending, restrict citizens' voting rights and intrude upon women's rights relating to abortion. This amounts to "veneration of American institutions"?
The Occupiers are not out there to destroy Wall Street but to ask for fairness and to reclaim the American dream that is engulfed by the greed of Wall Street. Does this amount to not venerating American political institutions?

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BOON T. LEE
Winston-Salem

Progressive value
The writer of the letter "Checklist" (Nov. 22) is entitled to her opinion regarding what it means to be progressive, just not her own facts. The list presented is clearly based on supposition, not reality. A similar list could be drawn about what it means to be conservative, and with equal value, which is none.
The reality is that most Americans, whether they call themselves conservative or progressive, are much closer to the middle than to the extreme fringes of political thought, which seem to get most of the media attention.
Another reality is that without progressives the writer, as a woman, would still be considered the property of her husband or, if unmarried, subject to her father's rule. She would be unable to own property, to vote or hold public office. And she would not be allowed to hold most of the professional positions now served so well by women. Without progressives, the writer's letter might have been consigned to the trash rather than printed in The Reader's Forum.
As for the separation of church and state to which the writer referred, one has only to read of the Puritans' migration to this country to escape the state-sponsored "Christian" religious persecution in Europe. One can also look at the suppression of women in contemporary Saudi Arabia, with its government religious police.
It is nice to think that a "Christian" nation would truly follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (who was the ultimate progressive), but historical facts show otherwise.

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DAVID M. McMAHON
King

In its context
I appreciate your printing the Peter Funt column "Soft and lazy describe our current petty politics" (Nov. 25). He points out that Gov. Rick Perry took some of President Obama's words out of context and tried to make it sound as if the president was saying that American workers are soft and lazy, when in its context it's obvious that he wasn't saying that at all. This "quote-mining" is a typical ploy on the radical right.
What's funny, though, is that last year Republican legislators were claiming that unemployed Americans who couldn't find jobs were soft and lazy. Where was Perry then? Where was the outrage from the right as conservative legislators insulted American workers?
It seems obvious to me that as far as radical conservatives are concerned, anything the left does is wrong and anything the right does is correct — even if it's the same thing. Go figure.

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RICKY S. PHILLIPS
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's MO 11/28/11

Responsible gun owners
In reference to Scott Sexton's column "Guns in Tanglewood? It's possible" (Nov. 8):
On Dec. 1, pursuant to passage of House Bill 650, local governments will lose the power to prevent permit-holders from protecting themselves with concealed handguns in parks, except in narrowly defined, specifically listed "recreational facilities." As a board member of Grass Roots North Carolina, the bill's principal architect, I assure you the law is neither "confusing," as the column alleges, nor was its passage a "free-for-all."
For 16 years, concealed handgun permit-holders have proved themselves sane, sober and law-abiding. Mirroring 36 other states with concealed carry, of the 395,251 permits approved, less than one-third of a single percent (0.30 percent) have been revoked for any reason, with most revocations unrelated to guns. You can expect to see that same responsibility in parks.
You should also expect the law to deter violent predators. Echoing controlled, multi-variate studies of other states, North Carolina violent crime has dropped by 43.5 percent since the concealed handgun law's inception. Yet anecdotal evidence suggests our ostensibly "gun-free" parks have not enjoyed that benefit. Indeed, two rapes cited by Grass Roots North Carolina in debating HB 650 — occurring within five months of each other — were perpetrated in a Winston-Salem park.
Fact, not fancy, should drive public policy. Rather than scurrying to ban concealed handguns in the few areas still permissible, local leaders should embrace the law as a rational response to park violence that will likely save lives.

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DAVID REGNERY
Mocksville

Job creation
It is an established fact that the Republican Party is opposed to an increase in taxes — including the taxes on the filthy rich. The argument for no increase in the tax rate for the wealthy is under the guise that the wealthy create jobs in America. Oh, really? Let's use a local illustration. According to the publication Business North Carolina, this past year the former CEO of Reynolds American, Susan Ivey, was paid $16.8 million in compensation.
The first question is: How many jobs did Susan Ivey and Reynolds American create in the past year? The second question is: How many jobs did Susan Ivey and Reynolds American eliminate last year? If more jobs were eliminated than created, then the Republican position is just a theory and a myth. The fact is, the rich of America are accumulating more personal wealth.
I believe the compensation for the CEO of a corporation should not exceed the salary of the president of the United States. I realize the corporate CEO must make tough decisions that affect the corporation and the employees. I also realize the president must make tough decisions that affect the nation and the world. Which of these is more important?
Consider the real reason Republicans do not want to impose a tax increase on the wealthy. Many members of Congress are millionaires — so they are the wealthy. Thus, they will not increase taxes on themselves. It all comes down to a matter of greed and selfishness.

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JACK LUTZ
King

Sacrificial lambs
It never ceases to amaze me how bureaucracies look for and find sacrificial lambs whenever a crisis occurs.
In the Penn State child-abuse scandal, that sacrificial lamb is Coach Joe Paterno. This man, who set the bar for honesty, integrity and ethics in college athletics, has been sacrificed without justification.
If the news reports are correct, Paterno reported allegations of the sexual misconduct to his superiors as soon as he found out about them. The Pennsylvania state police commissioner, Frank Noonan, says that Paterno should have called the police to report the allegations. Paterno did what he was supposed to do. He had no personal knowledge other than a report from a third person — nothing more than hearsay — and he reported that. His superiors should have launched an investigation to get to the bottom of the allegation, which, evidently, would have included calling the police.
The trustees' board vice chairman, John Surma, said on public radio that it was "in the best interest of the university" to discharge Coach Paterno. I have always thought that it is in the best interest of any organization to be fair. Paterno was not treated fairly. He had already said that he would retire at the end of the season. To paint him with the same brush as the perpetrator is just plain wrong, and now Paterno, a shining example of what it is to be honorable, has been tarnished by the same institution that he loyally served for 60 years.

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RONALD J. SHORT
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's SU 11/27/11

A direct violation
I find it extremely disturbing that the Winston-Salem City Council has voted against allowing law-abiding citizens with permits to carry concealed weapons in most city parks ("Hidden guns banned in 52 parks," Nov. 22). The law-abiding citizen who has been fully vetted by the Forsyth County sheriff, and the rest of society visiting these parks are now at the mercy of the criminals. This is a direct violation of my right to have the ability to defend myself and my family from harm that may present itself to me any time I visit one of these exempt parks.
Do criminals have this same exemption? Will they follow the law and not carry a "hidden gun" per your headline? Of course not; that's why they're called criminals.
To subvert my ability to protect my family and me is to rely on a police force that will not be next to my side 24/7. Only law-abiding citizens with the ability to carry weapons have that ability 24/7.
Shame on the council for taking that right away. Would it act as quickly if this was a First Amendment right?

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MARK A. POWERS
Winston Salem

Tomorrow's teachers
It's the time of year when I usually receive my invitation to be part of the N.C. Teaching Fellowship selection process. For the past several years I've had the privilege to serve on the selection committee and to choose which high-school seniors receive scholarships to become public-school teachers.
As a member of the business community, I was always struck by the high level of students that applied to the program. These students had the talents to receive high-paying jobs in many professions, but they wanted to be teachers. They came from all walks of life. Several worked full-time jobs to help their families while maintaining excellent grades. They represented the best that children have to offer and they had the desire to give back. I was impressed.
One of the best aspects of the program was that it required the scholarship recipients to remain as public-school teachers for several years. It gave the community a strong foundation of teachers for tomorrow.
Unfortunately, I will not be receiving an invitation to serve this year, as the program was cut from the North Carolina state budget. With hope, the highly talented students that would have qualified for the program will still find the means to go to college and become teachers. Our future success depends on a well-trained work force educated by the best teachers.

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CRAIG ALLISON
MATERIALS MANAGER, TE CONNECTIVITY
Advance

Extremes
I read where the writer of the letter "Checklist" (Nov. 22) set the record straight on "evil" progressives. Note: When you stereotype an ideology and list extremes only, you don't really make an intelligent point, only an emotional one.
Her list makes a greater statement about herself than the progressives she condemns. Sweeping generalizations seldom do anybody any good and are mostly inaccurate. For example, I am a "progressive" and yet I am a Christian who does not think "God is a myth." I also have no aversion to the American flag, believe it or not. But yes, I am against greed and power-lust and the gap between the rich and poor, and I do appreciate diversity, multiculturalism and the environment.
The writer created a laundry list of extremist stereotypes, and I could do the same thing: "Conservatives don't care about the poor or minorities. Government and religion should be the same thing. Wealthy people matter more than anyone else. Anyone who is unemployed is a bum." Making blanket statements about what you don't agree with does not change people's minds. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle of these extreme statements, and that's where conservatives and liberals, tea partiers and Occupiers, Republicans and Democrats can find common ground.
We all have more common values than we think, but they will never be discovered as long as we only state the extreme stereotypes of the other side.

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EDWIN BLAKE WADDELL
Winston-Salem

Sum It Up

Should the government be heavily involved in helping the needy? Respond to letters@wsjournal.com and put "Sum It Up" in the subject header. Only signed entries please, no anonymous ones. Briefer responses receive preference in print.

CORRESPONDENT OF THE WEEK

FUBAR
The indignities imposed upon our veterans (both living and dead) returning from overseas wars as described in your Nov. 17 editorial "Loss of body parts latest shameful act" is well beyond SNAFU (Situation Normal All Fouled Up) and fits under another military saying: FUBAR, or Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition (which also comes in a saltier version).

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MURRAY C. GREASON JR.
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's SA 11/26/11

Memory flubs
If Gov. Rick Perry's candidacy survives until the N.C. presidential primary in May, he won't be my choice. But that won't be because he forgot in a November debate that Energy was one of the three Cabinet departments he would target for elimination.
Gerald Ford and Mike Dukakis weren't my preferences, either. But how many aspiring contenders I might have endorsed declined to file for fear of suffering the same fate as those two? When any flub can prove fatal, why bother to throw your hat into the ring?
Perry is about the same age as I am. Usually my memory is as good as ever — maybe better. But then comes one of those confounded voids. I ask the person listening to me to give me a rain check and I go right on talking. A minute or two after I quit searching for the fugitive thought, it finds me. But I wouldn't have that luxury if I were running for president. And that's too bad.
Sometimes it seems that the idea that eludes me is the one that is most obvious or familiar. I believe that Perry considers energy one of his areas of expertise. So it is consistent with my experience that he lost the department he did. But there I go again, spoiling the fun with introspection.
I will vote against Rick Perry, but not because he went blank in a moment of stress. I will vote against Rick Perry because he isn't Rep. Ron Paul.

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BARNEY W. HILL
Thomasville

Influential groups
The presidential election of 1964 was the beginning of my active interest in politics. As far back as 47 years ago there was great concern about the influence that "special-interest groups" had on the political process, but the grounds for our fears then seem benign compared to the angst many people now feel about what seems to be an all-out assault on our system of government.
With the Supreme Court's "Citizens United" decision in 2010, corporate spending became essentially unregulated, and it has seemed as though our government is now on auction, for sale to the highest bidder. In our state, Art Pope is the plutocrat-in-chief as he poured millions of dollars into the election of conservative candidates in 2010, and they are now in control of our state Legislature. What does he expect in return for his generosity?
On another front there is the American Legislative Exchange Council, which sponsors retreats where corporate leaders meet with state legislators to produce pre-packaged legislation that is then delivered to the respective state assemblies for instant passage. In that Thom Tillis, speaker of the House in North Carolina, was named one of ALEC's legislators of the year, what was the role of ALEC in the crazy legislation passed during the last session?
To whom are our elected lawmakers responsible? There is no concern about jobs and the dire economic conditions of too many of our citizens, but we can be comforted with a healthy portion of corporate-inspired ideology.

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CHARLES FRANCIS WILSON
Winston-Salem

Learn from mistakes
Applause and thanks go to those who are willing to stand up to corporate greed and the terrible gap between the excessively wealthy and the suffering poor. A place of protest near wealthy economic centers in our city seems appropriate. The fat sheep are the ones that our Lord God will destroy and feed with justice (Ezekiel 34:16).
I don't understand the need to occupy and camp in a vacant city lot overnight ("Protesters want to set up camp at Civic Plaza," Nov. 22). We don't need to violate any city ordinances. Public gatherings after midnight do not generally invite safety and positive transformation. It seems to me that the bold "occupy" people would need to be home at night caring for their own families and residences. We do not need any temptations for legal protests to become violent or to cause sanitation problems for our city officials. We can learn from mistakes in other cities. Daytime, peaceful protests of self-indulgent incomes and profit that respect city property and keep it clean could be very helpful to our society's need to change.

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THE REV. LAURA SPANGLER
PASTOR, LLOYD PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
Winston- Salem

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Waiting
President Obama is waging a "we can't wait" war against Congress. While conducting his smear campaign, he has completely ignored some 17 already House-passed jobs bills stuck in the Senate awaiting action from the Democratic leadership. These bills, if passed, would reduce the red tape that is keeping small businesses from creating new jobs. An example of these bills is HR 2250, which passed the House with the support of 41 Democrats. Why has Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid refused to bring these bills up for a debate and vote? Right there is a big part of the gridlock.
If the president is truly interested in creating jobs instead of just looking for someone to blame for his failed policies, he will tell Reid to take action on these bills immediately.

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VON B. HAMRICK
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's FR 11/25/11

Fighting new standards
Congress has been under severe criticism from all sides for its inability to address the ills of the country. The Nov. 16 article "Lunch standards fought," is the icing on the cake. It is an unassailable fact that obesity among children and adults is one of the leading health issues in our country and is costing us, the taxpayers, billions of dollars a year in medical costs for those afflicted. The Department of Agriculture, to its credit, has proposed changing the standards for school lunches to help address poor nutrition and obesity among children. Not only would the new standards have an immediate impact, but they would also help children make long-term improvements in their eating habits.
What is Congress' response? It is fighting the new standards at the behest of the food industry, which has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo both in school lunches and poor eating habits. The makers of frozen pizza, salty foods, tomato paste, etc., all benefit from the poor quality of today's lunches. Of more concern to these companies is that children may grow up insisting on nutritious, fresh foods to the long-term detriment of profit margins.
The failure of Congress to support better nutrition and to address the problem of obesity is a tax on us all in the form of higher health-care costs and greater government dependence due to rising disability claims associated with obesity. However, who ever said that Congress didn't know which side of the bread was buttered?

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JOHN WIGODSKY
Winston-Salem

Success and rewards
In response to the Nov. 15 letter "General welfare," there are several points that need to be clarified. As a "rightist strong man," my defense is not of greed but of the right of all citizens of this country to be successful and have the rewards that go along with success. My defense is of personal responsibility and the initiative in people that leads them to better their own condition. Socialism ruins human initiative. What was the last great invention from a socialist or communist country?
Spending is not my enemy. Unsustainable and wasteful spending is and should be everyone's enemy. It is not possible for this country to maintain trillion-dollar deficits. Have we learned nothing from Europe?
The letter writer mentions the greed of the uncharitable few. The uncharitable few give billions every year to support causes like medical research, food programs for hungry children and building churches and hospitals, just to name a few. How much altruism is necessary to remove the "uncharitable" label?
Greed can be defined two ways, both of which can be summed up with people's belief that they do not have as much as they desire or deserve. The very desire to see wealth distributed can rightly be defined as greed. On what does the writer base his belief that the 5 percent deserve to have less or that the 95 percent are owed more? How much more and how much less would make the division equitable?

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B. SCOTT DRAUGHN
Winston-Salem

Rethink criticism
Columnist Chris Fitzsimon needs to rethink his criticism of UNC budget cuts ("Surprisingly puzzled opponent of higher tuition," Nov. 19). He questions why UNC Board of Governors member Fred Eshelman is upset over the cuts when Eshelman supported the election of Republicans who voted for the cuts.
Fitzsimon misses several points.
When you are broke (and we are), you cut spending. I can't think of a better place to start than our university system. Our once-beloved universities have lost their soul. We don't educate North Carolinians anymore. Instead, we spoon-feed them pabulum of liberal culture and political correctness, fed by bureaucrats (under the guise of "educators") with a liberal agenda.
However, assuming one still sees value here (and what card-carrying liberal wouldn't?), let us proceed. Fitzsimon criticizes the General Assembly for ignoring our state's constitutional requirement to "provide higher education to residents of the state as free as practicable." The only thing the General Assembly needs to be criticized for is raising tuition on the wrong group. I suggest a better solution. Leave tuition and fees where they are for North Carolina residents and raise them 40-50 percent for non-residents. If UNC is the premier university everyone thinks it is, non-resident students will still come here. Last time I checked, there were considerably more applications for admission than acceptances.
Besides, if non-state applicants don't want to pay to play at UNC, they can always go to Duke or Harvard, where I am sure there are bargains to be had.

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FRANK F. COAN
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TH 11/24/11

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Sum It Up
The Sum It Up question from Sunday was: Do you think the Occupy movement has a point?

* * * * *
Yes, but I haven't quite figured it out yet!

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FRANK SCISM

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Their points are all summed up in the Liberty Square Blueprint. If you're a follower of Fox News I'm sure you've never heard of this document. Which is amazing, since Fox is so "fair and balanced."

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KAM BENFIELD

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All of them, including those in Winston-Salem, are chanting:
We're lazy!
You're not!
We demand what you got!

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CLINT JOHNSON

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Absolutely the Occupy movement has a point. The problem might be Washington, but Washington is being fed by Wall Street. Already Occupy Wall Street has changed the dialogue in this country, and it has done so in an amazingly nonviolent way. Every time the cops attack and brutalize peaceful demonstrators they destroy their own credibility and the credibility of their masters.
I am dumbfounded by how the Occupy movement has been able to remain, for the most part, so incredibly nonviolent. My hat's off to them; I would, absolutely, not be able to restrain myself to the abuses they have been subjected to. They are a model for the world. They have my support. The time for change has truly come.

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RICH WOODWARD

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Yes, I think Occupy Winston-Salem has a point. As a member, I love the opportunity to meet with people of different backgrounds and opinions, and to reach consensus on matters of public concern. Working together in nonviolence is the point.
Our purposes are positive, and I don't understand the comments made by those who accuse us of varying degrees of immoral, costly and criminal behaviors. We support those people who aren't getting a fair shake, who are struggling in our economy, and who don't have a powerful voice. And, here in Winston-Salem, we have done that every step of the way through legal channels. We have been trying nothing more than to make this city a better place to live.
Now that the Journal has used its "powerful voice" against us, I'm afraid we might not be able to do that.

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DIANNE P. HOBBS

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The Occupy movement has a very clear point: Government has been hijacked by money, and the desires of a very small percentage of people, rather than serving the common good.

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ELISABETH M. MOTSINGER

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We conservatives threw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting everything that is driving the Occupy movement. The dishonesty and greed of Wall Street executives, bankers, members of Congress and lobbyists that have destroyed people's life savings and put the entire global economy at risk is an issue both liberals and conservatives should embrace. So what if our tea party demonstrations were mocked by the mainstream media despite being orderly and safe while the Occupy movement has proved to be smelly and lawless? We are not alike, but it's a mistake by the political right to not recognize the common ground of both movements.
In a free republic like ours, laws alone will never control greed. Capitalism needs strong ethics to keep it in check, and the only ethics that will overcome the love of money are those derived from knowing and fearing God.
Most of our Founding Fathers assumed our citizens would be God-pleasers. Greed is flourishing because the God-fearing population is shrinking. We need to re-regulate Wall Street, replace career politicians and pray for a revival.

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MIKE J. BARON

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Yes, but some inquiry is needed. The Occupy movement's endorsers include: Communist Party USA, American Nazi Party, Socialist Party USA, Louis Farrakhan, Hugo Chavez, Ayatollah Khamenei and the government of North Korea. Why are groups and individuals who loathe both liberty and America endorsing the Occupy movement?

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DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS

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Any fair observer sees that the Occupiers have a point: There is entrenched unfairness in American capitalism. Our financial, legal and social systems have been bent in favor of the very rich. The issue is, What kind of fruit will the Occupy movement bear? Its effect will depend more on practical politics than morality: Can it convert its energy into partisan political channels?
If the Occupiers can field candidates and get its believers to the polls, then they will really change things, as the tea party has demonstrated negatively.

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HAYES McNEILL

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Yes, the Occupy movement definitely has a point in this area. With Duke Energy asking for rate hikes — with Time Warner Cable increasing its rates — tuition increases — restaurant prices skyrocketing — CEO salaries and insurance premiums increasing — what do you think? Where are we going?
The average American citizen sees no future since his wages have become stagnant (no increase), housing market prices are plummeting, there's the loss of jobs, foreclosures, etc. It is depressing. Now is the time not just to occupy, but to take action in a peaceful way.

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J.B. EDWARDS

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The Occupy movement not only has a point, but it makes a simple but profound point: The rich 1 percent become richer, the 99 percent laboring poor, poorer. The Occupy movement shifts the national dialogue and focus from deficit, public spending and big government to widening and growing income disparity and economic injustice.
Over the last three decades, the rich have seen their incomes increased by 275 percent, whereas the lower-class income 19 percent and the middle-class income 40 percent.
The rich not only rake in the dough but also grab the power. The 2010 midterm elections were bought by big corporations and big donors. (It is reported that in North Carolina, the wealthy businessman Art Pope almost single-handedly put all the tea party-leaning Republican candidates in the state House.)
Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin rightly observed in 2009, "[Banks] frankly own the place (the Senate)." The corporation-sponsored ALEC flooded the GOP-dominated statehouses with its model bills. People's interests are completely ignored. By all measures, the nation has been turned into a plutocracy. Democracy is a sham.

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BOON T. LEE

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's WE 11/23/11

The answer?
I believe we are entering into a new reality in the economy, and that simplicity is a major survival tool. There are not enough well-paying jobs to ensure that we will all have the cash to live as some of our parents did.
The answer? For me, it is downsizing from a four-bedroom home to a two-bedroom condo, with a fireplace to help with heating bills. It is buying bulk foods such as 50 pounds of oatmeal and 20 pounds of rice at a time. We are canning apples from the farmer's market. We are growing our own vegetables. We are open to living with other family members or friends if needed. We go on walks for fun and bird watch rather than spend a lot going out.
I feel sad to see poor people dependent upon expensive processed foods, and families struggling to keep a home and staying poor because of an expensive mortgage.
Wealth to me is not based upon one's bank account or home ownership. It is the peace of mind to know we will be fine. We have found a way that does not require a lot of cash.

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CONNIE DILLON
Winston-Salem

We need both campuses
I recently read the editorial on the efforts to keep at least one of North Carolina's Governor's School campuses open for next summer ("Hard decision should lean toward Salem," Nov. 8). I was one of 300 students fortunate enough to be selected to attend Governor's School East last summer. It was easily the best experience of my life.
Throughout the summer the possibility that we might be the last group of people to have our horizons broadened by the program hung over students and faculty like a dark cloud. Needless to say, all who realize the immense value of the program were elated to hear at least one campus will be maintained. However, I believe efforts to keep both campuses open should continue so that more students from Winston-Salem can benefit.
This year 18 students from Winston-Salem and 55 from the Triad area attended. Budget cuts have forced the Governor's School program to charge each student a $300 tuition fee, which undoubtedly impeded many students from applying. With only one campus, even fewer students will have the chance to attend.
Winston-Salem should support the efforts toward opening both campuses so as to secure a tremendous opportunity for local students to better prepare for the transition into adulthood and become highly valuable members of their communities and professions.

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AYANA BURKINS
Winston-Salem

Medicare for all
I agree with many who believe that Obamacare is not ideal for this nation. Instead, Medicare for all is the best and least expensive way of providing health care to all Americans. CEOs of private insurance companies are paid millions of dollars. The CEO of United Healthcare, which AARP recommends, took home $106 million last year. The less fortunate receive $3 million to $50 million a year. The more they make, the more they want, and these are people who in no way participate in the treatment of any patient.
As for those who do treat the sick, extra personnel is always needed in doctors' offices and hospitals in order to handle the complicated and divergent systems of the various insurance companies, an administrative expense that contributes to the rising cost of health care. Administrative costs for Medicare are around 3 percent; for private insurance companies, 17 percent. Medicare premiums increased by 400 percent from 1969 to 2009; private health-insurance premiums rose 700 percent in the same period. It is predicted premiums will increase 8.5 percent in 2012, and large and mid-sized businesses may be given the option to stop contributing to the cost of employee's insurance.
The label of "socialized medicine" is the source of hysterical reactions, fueled by millions donations from large corporations that benefit richly from the current system. Fifty million Americans don't have health insurance. Medicare for all is the only structure that will help all Americans, and will also decrease the cost of health care.

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DR. ERNESTO DE LA TORRE
Lewisville

Higher expectations
The Journal should not have lowered its standards or ethics to publish the column "The institutional pass" by Joe Nocera. We can expect such trash from The New York Times, which is known for a reputation against the Catholic Church. We had higher expectations from our local paper — which loyal readers are more likely to believe. This column was the media acting as judge, jury and executioner of someone not yet convicted.
Everyone deserves their day in court. The described acts have not been proved as facts. This is not an opinion — it is media taking over our justice system. This should not be allowed.
So far the unfortunate situation compares with other locales where adults shower with kids and it is an accepted though vulnerable practice. Let's go back to "innocent until proved guilty." Some have been proved innocent even after a guilty verdict.

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REGINA FRANCK
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TU 11/21/11

Checklist
The following checklist is provided in hopes of rescuing the unwary from the clutches of "progressive" ideology:
"You might be a progressive if ..."

• You think that those who disagree with your sociopolitical views are stupid, bigoted or racist.

• You rail against the greed and power-lust of corporations, but not of labor unions.

• You believe the conservative billionaire Koch brothers are a threat to the Republic, but view leftist billionaire George Soros as an upstanding humanitarian.

• You blame banks, corporations and the "rich" for wrecking the economy, but dismiss the culpability of Congress, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

• You think the Occupy leftists, anarchists and anti-capitalists are praiseworthy, but regard tea partiers as laughable at best and menacing at worst.

• You want the president to institute laws without congressional approval.

• You think God is a myth, but government is divine .

• You idolize the 1947 U.S. Supreme Court's pivotal misapplication of the "separation of church and state."

• You have an aversion to the American flag, the Pledge of Allegiance and the lowly incandescent light bulb. But you applaud multiculturalism, socialism and imprudently subsidized "green" energy.

If any of the above symptoms applies, please seek immediate treatment.
Recovery will likely require extensive exposure to unrevised U.S. history, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the writings of the Founders.

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DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS
Lewisville

Look to Greece
I think we should be looking at Greece as a cautionary tale, and, perhaps, a model for a way out of our financial crisis. Its economic mess is not that different from ours. The same cast of characters and failed policies that are responsible for many of our problems are evident there, as well.
Greece's government has not been able to agree or take meaningful action on anything that would boost employment or stimulate its economy. Instead, the politicians have tied themselves in knots trying to figure out the best way to make the citizens shoulder the burden of their crushing deficit. They have run out of money and out of time while they spun their wheels trying to find a quick fix to what needs to be a thoughtful, long-term plan that addresses the root causes. Does this sound familiar?
For anyone who can't imagine the United States ever having to beg another country to bail it out, just look at how indebted we are to China right now.
One of the options Greece's "super committee" is looking at is asking the bankers and financiers to bail out the government as an emergency measure. What a novel idea, asking the mega-rich to loan their country the money to get back on its feet, instead of the other way around.
Maybe we should quit discussing corporate tax rates, for now, and just offer the companies we bailed out the opportunity to invest in the United States and return the favor.

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MELODY THOMSON
Winston-Salem

Feeling the pinch
Thank you for your Nov. 15 editorial "Time to end delusions: Education funding." The educators of Forsyth County have been feeling the pinch of the legislative budget cuts for the last four years. Most of us understand that sacrifices had to be made in order to keep the children of Forsyth County educated. We have endured furlough days and benefit changes. Our classified employees have had their hours reduced and days cut. Positions are not being filled as normal attrition occurs.
Our school counselors are overworked, with the increase in family stresses due to the economy. More children and families need services that are provided by fewer people with fewer resources. Our media specialists are charged with the daunting job of preparing children for the skills they will need to be successful adults. Technology and research skills are essential for every child in the 21st century, no matter what their socio-economic status may be. Reducing the number of people to teach these skills and not providing adequate technology will further hinder our children.
The legislature has not owned up to its part in this constant draining away of funding for public education. It insists that it supports us. It insists that it is fully funding public education when it is evident that it is not. It is time for the legislature to stand up for the children of North Carolina.

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ANN PETITJEAN
PRESIDENT
FORSYTH COUNTY ASSOCIATION OF EDUCATORS
Winston Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's MO 11/21/11

In perspective
I have read with interest the recent letters criticizing relish contributor Jelisa Castrodale ("Bullying," "Disappointed," Oct. 30; "Mean and vicious," Nov. 8) for her column on downtown noise regulations. I agree with those who have characterized her comments on opponents of such rules as rude and condescending.
However, let's keep things in perspective: This was a rare slip from a writer who is usually sharp, on target and very entertaining. I have read Castrodale's column since it began appearing in relish, and I have always enjoyed her ability to keep a witty, conversational tone while praising our city's attributes. In a time when most of our commentators are homogenized and rootless, she provides an original voice with a refreshing local point of view.

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TOM E. HEARN
Winston-Salem

Disappointing correspondent
It was disappointing to see that you had selected for the Nov. 6 Correspondent of the Week someone who spewed so much venom ("Infrastructure change"). Not that the words were in themselves unsavory, but the tone was filled with hate. And so tired: "Guys leaning on a shovel" goes back to the Great Depression and the WPA. Even the dentist's aide leans back waiting for the dentist to finish her work.
The problems at hand need thoughtful, honest answers and straightforward solutions, not the cuteness of "Little Jack Horner" and "Nanny State."
Can we not handle our differences in a more civil way?

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BARBARA BUSKIRK
Winston-Salem

To tell the truth
The intent of the writer of the letter "A political agenda" (Nov. 11) must be to jest. Obviously, he has never been to a tea-party meeting or he would know that every line in his letter is without merit and factually incorrect.
Social Security and Medicare have created within themselves their own upcoming demise. The platform of the GOP is that no one currently in these programs or nearing retirement will be affected. However, if we don't work together to do what we can to save them, they will be gone for good.
As for the Environmental Protection Agency, are we not all drinking the same water, breathing the same air?
It's a good thing the Hoover Dam and the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges were built prior to 1970. They would never get past the first feasibility study today.
If a person cannot build on his own property because some environmentalist would call standing water "protected wetland," the federal government has gone too far. And I assume his points about laws that promote civil rights or protect workers from exploitation are referring to unions and their right to strike. The average citizen who is still employed is having to support everyone: the chronically unemployed and their never-ending benefits; public-sector union members' salaries, pensions and health care; and public schools and universities that are producing students so ignorant they think Hamas is a dip!
The only schools excelling today are the home schools. When do they get their kudos?

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STEPHANIE EMERY
Clemmons

Write-in candidates
As a 30-year resident of Clemmons, I am deeply disappointed in the strategy used by the three write-in candidates, Jim Hayes, Norman Denny and Mike Rogers, during our recent local election. By choosing not to run a campaign, attend candidate forums or answer questions from the media, they shared nothing about their leadership skills, involvement in the community, background, experience, values and what skill sets they bring to the table of the Clemmons Village Council.
Each election, I commit the needed time to educate myself on the issues and candidates. I value our election process and over the years have given back by serving as a precinct judge and chief judge in Clemmons as my schedule would allow. I am fully aware that electioneering outside the polls beyond the buffer zone is a legal right and used by candidates to try to win last minute votes. It is shameful that these candidates did not feel the voters deserved more of a commitment on their part to share their stories.
As a parent who has experienced sending two sons off to war approved by elected officials, I understand the value of placing importance on the selection of our leaders. In the future, I hope we will not see this type of election strategy again. I hope our candidates will understand the responsibility that comes with servant leadership to build trust in the community.

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DEBI BOYCE
Clemmons

Dismayed
I was dismayed to see the cartoon in the Nov. 15 Journal that associated His Holiness Benedict XVI with Penn State and the Joe Paterno case. Columnist Maureen Dowd must be rubbing her hands in glee.

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WILLIAM K. ACH
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE SU 11/20/11

Government intrusion
The Republican-controlled state General Assembly passed a law that is euphemistically referred to as the "Women's Right to Know Act," which took effect in October. I was present at the hearing when U.S. District Judge Catherine Eagles placed a preliminary injunction on a portion of the law that required physicians to place an ultrasound image within sight of every pregnant woman seeking an abortion and to provide a verbal description of what the ultrasound revealed, plus offer her the choice of listening to the heartbeat. After hearing the arguments, I was convinced that this law is an example of extreme government intrusion in a decidedly personal matter. The purpose of the law has nothing to do with care for the woman but instead it is designed to coerce, intimidate and inflict a conservative ideology.
State Sen. Pete Brunstetter was reported to have said ("Part of abortion law blocked," Oct. 26) that he was "dismayed" over Judge Eagles' decision, which intruded on a "legislative matter." His dismay could never equal the shock I felt when he helped pass a law that exposed his total disregard for women's ability to make independent, informed decisions.
I cannot imagine a more agonizing decision than whether to have an abortion. Every woman can seek wise, caring counsel from any number of resources to assist her. There are counselors, ministers, physicians and Planned Parenthood available to anyone wrestling with this harrowing decision. This law is an overt assault on women's integrity, intelligence and moral character.

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ANNE GRIFFIS WILSON
Winston-Salem

Ballot box
On Nov. 9 I was so proud to be a resident of Clemmons. On Nov. 9 I saw in print what the ballot box can do regarding term limits ("Clemmons voters overhaul council"). Democrats, Republicans, conservatives and liberals came together and gave our elected officials a strong indication of what we expect of them.
Barely re-elected Mayor John Bost should be ashamed of his attitude and language toward us. He works for us as mayor. And no one gets a $6 million check to be thrown into a spending mosh pit to do whatever comes along. Perhaps Bost should resign and allow Clemmons to move on as we the voters choose to do.

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MARTHA L. SMITH
Clemmons

Winston-Salem protest?
The Winston-Salem City Council is thinking of giving Occupy Winston-Salem a permit to camp on a public parking lot downtown ("Occupy group seeks OK to camp," Nov. 12). These groups are causing trouble in other cities, and in most places they are overstaying and leaving horrible messes behind.
I understand that this would be a special permit, as camping is not allowed downtown. Will they pay for the permit and insurance like the tea party did in April 2009?
All groups should be treated the same.
There is sickness in these camps, rapes of women and deaths. Do we need this on our streets?
Is this parking lot used by the public? Will people who work and park there be provided with alternative parking? Will they cover the cost of the extra police protection, bring in portable sanitation equipment, cook on the streets, and will the health department be checking this? Will they be bringing in generators to provide heat or have open fires, something not allowed in the city?
I am for free speech and the right to protest, but they are taking this to the extreme. What are they protesting in Winston-Salem? Are they against the job the council members are doing? Do they think our government should be replaced, and with what form of government? Are they protesting the banks, the medical field, the education system? These provide jobs and the tax revenue for our city.
Questions need to be answered before a permit is granted.

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PATRICIA KLEINMAIER
Pfafftown

Right on
The writer of the letter "Discontent" (Nov. 12) is right on when he suggests term limits for members of Congress. However, it is a hopeless wish. They would never vote term limits into law because they would lose their power and especially their perks.
The Readers' Forum does a good job of publishing all different opinions.

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ANN S. RUTTER
Pfafftown

Permits?
Since when do you have to ask permission, get permits or notify anybody in order to protest ("Panel backs Occupy camping," Nov. 15)? I really don't believe we would have broken the ties with England with this modern-day brand of dissent. That bunch that dumped the tea in Boston Harbor surely must be rolling over in their graves.

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CHARLES COLLINS
Mount Airy

Correspondent of the week

Cal is wrong
In Cal Thomas' column "Penn State's shame — and ours" (Nov. 16), he asserts that the Penn State sexual-abuse scandal is a sign of the moral decay of American society: "… society — buttressed by religion — once did a better job of keeping human nature in check." He says that the decline began in the "free-loving '60s."
Child sexual abuse didn't begin in the 1960s. I have worked with survivors from all over the country. They included people who were abused in the 1940s and even in Thomas' idyllic 1950s.
I agree that our culture has changed, but in this respect, it's a change for the good. A scandal like this would not have happened 50 years ago, but not because there was no abuse. The scandal would not have happened because no one talked about it. Children could not tell, and if they did tell, they were not believed and were sometimes punished for the telling.
While there is much about how the Penn State situation was handled that is unthinkable, the fact remains that a child was able to tell, a mom believed and was able to make a report to the authorities that finally exposed the abuse. That wouldn't have happened 50 years ago. So, you see, change to societal norms is not always a bad thing.
Thomas has put together two and two, only to come up with five. Child sexual abuse is too serious to be treated with such frivolous arguments.

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PEGGY HAYMES
Winston-Salem

Sum It Up

Do you think the Occupy movement has a point? Respond to letters@wsjournal.com and put "Sum It Up" in the subject header. Only signed entries please, no anonymous ones. Briefer responses receive preference in print.

Kitty Kat's Corner

"advocate of civilization, defender of civilization, teacher of the rules of civilization, arouser of those who form civilization, organizer of the pro-civilization activists, and leader “possibly” of the civilizing forces."

1.  Charlie Sheen
2.  Newt Gingrich
3.  Underdog
4.  all the above

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's SA 11/19/11

Tax fairness
Conservative columnist John Hood recently shared some credible "data to chew on": that the least-affluent households pay only about 16 percent of their total income in federal, state and local taxes, while the tax bites steady grow until the most affluent households have to pay 31 percent ("How high is high enough?" Nov. 6). Hood offered these data to support his complaint that "the tax burden on wealthiest Americans is already about twice as high in proportional terms as the tax burden on the poorest Americans."
Perhaps it would be helpful to chew on some additional data, starting with the answers to these two queries: First, what is the average after-tax income in dollars for each of the five American economic income quintiles? Then, after each taxpayer has made some voluntary charitable donations, how much average income in dollars is left for spending on that taxpayer's private needs and wants? Qualitatively, what does this additional data suggest about economic fairness? Politically, should we even care about such a thing?
There are lots of generous rich folks around here whose philanthropy helps make Winston-Salem a wonderful place to live. But is it unfair to raise tax rates on these fortunate households by a few percentage points? For Hood to have aborted his inquiry as to what really constitutes tax fairness serves only to hoodwink Journal readers, not enlighten us.
Until we can digest more data than what Hood appears willing to provide, I shall refrain from weeping for the wealthy.

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WILLIAM B. GIBSON
Winston-Salem

At the end
When I was a child my parents taught me to kneel at the bedside at the end of the day and pray for all the things which had happened to my family and me that day. I was not taught to pray when I awoke.
The controversy over sectarian prayer is that the courts have decided that opening the council meeting with a prayer referencing a named deity is unconstitutional.
Simply hold the prayer session at the end of the meeting, praying, as I did when I was a child, that the council has done a good job and not made erroneous decisions. Then anyone who does not wish to hear the prayer or the reference to a particular deity or deities, and a multiplicity could be named or referred to, could leave the meeting at the conclusion, and those who wish to pray could do so. The timing of the prayer should have no bearing on the meeting, provided that the prayers are completed. Everyone should be satisfied, including the courts and the ACLU.
Just moving the prayer session to the end would prevent the city having to spend my tax dollars on what I consider to be a frivolous waste.

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MERV WOODWARD
Winston-Salem

Next plan?
I was a member of the citizen's steering committee that developed the Village of Clemmons 2030 Comprehensive Plan. This plan, built with significant citizen input, articulates a long-term vision for the village and defines specific actions for realizing that vision over the next 25 years. It seeks to manage Clemmons' inevitable growth while recapturing a "village" quality of life that was lost over the past three decades.
It does so by lowering congestion, connecting communities and providing the types of amenities that appeal to current citizens as well as to the type of people moving to our area as we transition to a knowledge-based economy.
The plan allows Clemmons to remain competitive with other progressive small towns in the area so that our homes appreciate in value, we attract the right kinds of businesses and we are able to maintain a viable tax base for funding of essential services.
The Nov. 8 election worries me because it seems to reflect deep opposition to something with no accompanying positive vision for the future. How do the "Real Friends of Clemmons" plan to fix Lewisville-Clemmons Road? How will they build greenways, parks and bike trails? How will they maintain our village quality of life while our population continues to grow? How will they pay for all this with a tax rate that's significantly below those of other small towns? What is their plan for the future? I look forward to hearing answers to those questions soon.

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SCOTT RHODES
Clemmons

Twisted
What a twisted world we live in. Say you are the grand poobah almighty football coach. If you did not immediately report the sex crimes against a little boy by a subordinate at Penn State, you are fired. Your name gets dragged through the mud, and eventually you end up in criminal and civil court. Which is exactly what you deserve.
But if you are the pope, you move priests around like chess pawns and get your parishioners to blindly tithe to pay lawyers and settlements. Then when you die you get nominated for sainthood. And the abuse continues under a new pope.
When Penn State fans pay to attend future athletic events, they will be as close to Catholicism as is humanly possible. They will be paying for the school's sins and transgressions. Their alma mater should be renamed Notre Penn.

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HARRY R. COOKE
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's FR 11/18/11

Thanks from the veterans
On behalf of Triad Vietnam Veterans Association, I would like to express heartfelt thanks to all those who participated in the Veterans Day parade on Nov. 11. It was the largest parade we've put on so far. We also wish to thank the public for the largest turnout that we have yet seen in Winston-Salem. It was humbling for all of us veterans to experience the outpouring of affection and gratitude that was awarded us that morning.
This parade was sponsored by the Forsyth County Veterans Council, which was organized to ensure the continuation of the Veterans Day Parade when it was in danger of faltering after Sept. 11, 2001. It was quite an undertaking and involved the cooperation of all the veterans' organizations in Forsyth County. It has warmed our hearts to be able to do this for the public's viewing, and to see how it has grown in size over the years.
We would be honored to see such enthusiasm from the public again next year. Please mark your calendars, bring your flag, and bring a friend.

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WALTER EMERY
VICE PRESIDENT, TRIAD VIETNAM VETERANS ASSOCIATION
Clemmons

Greatest generation
On behalf of the Triad Flight of Honor, we wish to thank the entire community for its overwhelming support over the last two years. What began as a major service project for Triad area Rotary clubs quickly became a community-wide effort.
Our World War II veterans have been able to see and experience their memorial in Washington and witness the welcome home they may have never received after the war. The widespread media coverage has touched the hearts, minds and wallets of the general public. Veterans who could never talk about their experiences are now sharing their stories, and young children have stood in awe to see and touch a real-life American hero. Lives have been forever changed, and scrapbooks will be passed down for generations to come.
Since our inaugural flight in October 2009, we have completed 13 flights, taking 1,300 veterans on a one-day trip to Washington. Regretfully, our Nov. 11, 2011, flight was the last flight of our program. While we will move away from chartering flights to Washington, our volunteer leadership will establish the Triad Flight of Honor Foundation (501c3), which will provide support to local veteran groups and organizations.
Having met so many World War II veterans, we can attest that they are a modest and humble generation. In the words of Winston Churchill, "Never was so much owed by so many to so few." Our veterans and their war will never ever be forgotten. They have and will always be our greatest generation.

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JEFF SIMS AND GUY MAFFETT
PROGRAM DIRECTORS, TRIAD FLIGHT OF HONOR

Raising rates
I am writing in response to the Oct. 31 form letter I received from your paper. The letter said in part, "Just a quick note to remind you that your subscription to the Winston-Salem Journal will expire on 11/17/2011. The total cost of your next renewal is $14.13."
Really? Why is the total cost of my next renewal $14.13? Could it be because you are raising your monthly subscription rates from $12.54 to $14.13?
I found your letter to be evasive, circuitous and insulting. I would much prefer you to be frank and honest in your dealings with me, as I am sure most, if not all, of your subscribers would be. If you find it necessary to charge more for your newspaper, then why don't you simply say so? You are in the business of providing clear, concise and accurate information to the public. This letter has none of those attributes. I expect better of you.

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ROBERT SMITHERMAN
Lewisville

A big joke
When did the Journal start a monthly allowance of 10 free articles to read online? I have never had an issue reading the paper online before but now if I want to read more the Journal wants me to buy a subscription. That is a big joke, if you ask me. On top of this, you've raised the Sunday paper to $2 as well. What a rip!

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CHARLES ALBERS
Winston-Salem


Historically, advertisers have made up 85 percent of our revenue stream, with just 15 percent coming from readers. In these challenging economic times, that business model is no longer viable. With advertising revenues deeply impacted by the recession, we feel we must ask readers to pay more for our content, whether it be in print or online. That means higher Sunday single-copy prices and no longer posting our content for free online. (Seven-day print subscribers have free digital access.) The local content we generate is unique and valuable. It seems fair that all our readers (print and online) should help support our journalism.
— Journal Publisher Jeff Green

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TH 11/17/11

Final flight
I sincerely expected the Journal to have an article in the Nov. 12 newspaper in celebration of the final Triad Flight of Honor by our World War II Veterans on Nov. 11, including a few pictures. There was nothing in the Journal about the final Triad Flight of Honor by our World War II veterans.
OK, I thought, I'm sure there will be a big article and several pictures about the Triad Flight of Honor in the Nov. 13 paper and probably on the front page. There was nothing in the paper about the final Triad Flight of Honor by our World War II veterans.
How could you omit something as special and meaningful as this occasion honoring these World War II veterans? There were several items in the Nov. 13 paper that could have been easily replaced by some kind of recognition of a celebration that was very important to the participants and a lot of your readers.
Thankfully, one of the World War II veterans from the Nov. 11 final Flight of Honor is a retired preacher at the church I attend, and spoke about their trip, their experiences, how well they were treated and what a grand time they had.

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LISA MYERS
Winston-Salem

The Journal ran a story on Nov. 15 about the ending of the Flight of Honor program.
— Carol Hanner, Journal managing editor.


Sum It Up

The Sum It Up question from Sunday was: Should GOP presidential hopeful Herman Cain step out of the race because of the allegations of sexual harassment against him?

* * * * *
Drop out? No way! Cain should stay in the race, win the presidency, receive a box of "congratulatory cigars" and serve two terms just like Bill Clinton.

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BOB REAGAN

* * * * *
The headline in the Nov. 13 Journal read, "Cain: God urged him to run for president." Cain will get a trial by a jury of his peers. Enough said.

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JOHN K. MOTSINGER SR.

* * * * *
Of course he should step out, but he won't because it's OK if you are Republican. According to Rush Limbaugh, most right-wing think tanks, and, of course, the right-wing political source known as Fox News, these women are the problem, not Cain.
If nothing happened, then why were settlements made?

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DENNIS WINNICKI

* * * * *
No. He should step out of the race because: He didn't know that China has nuclear weapons. Also, remember Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan? He claims to understand the Israeli-Palestinian issue but doesn't know what "right of return" is. He's a bigot. Many forget that he said he wouldn't have any Muslims in his Cabinet. He bashes gays and lesbians. His 9-9-9 tax plan was stolen from a video game. And lastly, he would be the only president ever elected without any political or military experience.

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KAM BENFIELD

* * * * *
Did Bill Clinton?

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JIM SOUTHERN

* * * * *
Herman Cain indeed may be the perpetrator of sexual harassment. Or Herman Cain very well may be the victim of character assassination. If Cain is guilty as alleged, may it be confirmed posthaste, and the man step out of the presidential race. If he's innocent, however, may he continue his quest to be elected as the second black president of the United States of America in 2012.

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DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS

* * * * *
Herman Cain should drop out of the race for the benefit of the GOP, if not on moral or ethical grounds. He is chauvinistic toward women and is insensitive to people below his social status. In a general election, he will not garner a lot of female votes.

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BOON T. LEE

* * * * *
No. Let Herman Cain stay in the race and continue to raise Cain.

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ELIZABETH R. ERVIN

* * * * *
Cain either has severe memory problems or is a serial liar. He has no recollection, oh, maybe a little, of the $80,000 his association paid out in settlements, immediately prior to his early departure. He can't remember Sharon Bialek or his dinner with her. He can't seem to remember much of anything. He is an embarrassment — it is time for him to go.

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ROBYN MIXON

* * * * *
Where there's smoke, there's fire. When a candidate's wife has to defend him, it marks the beginning of the end. I won't vote for him.

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WILLIAM SAMS

Kitty Kat's Corner WE 11/16/11

I enjoy restoring old farm equipment.  :)

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's WE 11/16/11

Out of touch
Mayor John Bost's offensive, nonsensical comments in the Nov. 9 Journal ("Clemmons voters overhaul council") indicate he can best serve our village by not accepting his marginal, unopposed, write-in win. Obviously, Bost and the council have become insular and out-of-touch with voters, as evidenced by the voter turnout and the election results. Further, voters should be wary any time a group of elected officials unanimously agree on any major issue, with unanimity suggesting cloning of their thought process.
Bost's calling the vote "corrupted," "immoral" and "blind leading the blind" is simply reprehensible and unconscionable of any elected official and offensive to voter intelligence.
Obviously, Bost opines that voters are incapable of making independent, informed decisions absent the typical posters and handouts at the polls, which influence a very small minority of voters. Perhaps Bost believes that elections should not be held, but decisions left entirely to an elite group of intellectuals, in defiance of the basis of our Founding Fathers.
The mayor and council failed to conduct voter informational meetings with an opportunity to hear voters and sense the overall pulse and failed to examine low-cost alternatives to alleviate the quarter-mile Lewisville-Clemmons Road "problem area," such as coordinated and timed traffic signals. They allowed the Journal to introduce in the Oct. 10 edition the 27 percent tax-hike bond issue ("Bonds are sought for roads") during these difficult economic times and left dialogue and communications to The Real Friends of Clemmons.
My "no" bond voting decision was made well in advance.

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VAN P. McGEHEE
Clemmons

Inaccurate and distorted
The Oct. 28 letter "Gilad Schalit returns home" is defamatory and has inaccurate and distorted statements. One concerned Palestinian children killed by Israelis. It is sad that any children or other innocents on either side are killed, but in fact no effort is made by Palestinian fighters to remove their children from military areas. Instead, they hide among women and children, using them as shields in schools, mosques and homes while firing weapons against Israelis.
Palestinian suicide bombers have killed countless Israeli children and other civilians in schools, malls, buses and restaurants. Since Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Hamas, the terrorist organization voted into power by the Palestinians, has bombarded Israel with more than 12,000 rockets and missiles, with Hamas proudly claiming responsibility for Israeli civilian deaths.
Israel does not target civilians. Israeli soldiers, endangering themselves, have often gone from door to door in Palestinian areas to root out terrorists and minimize casualties, dropped flyers over homes, sent text messages and telephoned countless people, urging them to vacate targeted areas. In addition, Israeli hospitals routinely take care of Palestinian children and adults with serious injuries.
The letter writer said the Hamas Charter calls for Jews, Christians and Muslims "to co-exist in safety and security." He neglected to add that the Charter also says, "Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam."
This same writer had a letter printed in the Journal on Oct. 9, 2009, praising Iran and President Ahmadinejad.

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ALICE G. SOLOMON
Winston-Salem

Celebrating profits
It is clear that the writer of the letter "Corporations" (Nov. 6) is convinced that corporate America exerts a sinister influence on national life, up to and including determining who will occupy the White House, at least if the electoral winner happens to be a Republican.
It is hard to know where the writer is going with his philosophy because he offers no real alternatives to our capitalistic system and the wide range of businesses that operate within it.
There may be, I acknowledge, a grain of truth in some of his assertions; after all, corporations, just like any other human institution, are owned and managed by people, some morally principled and some not. The trouble with the letter writer is his lack of balance and penchant for grossly overstating the case.
He surely must realize that corporations are more than executives drawing large incomes. Tens of millions of Americans rely on the profits businesses earn for their own security, in the form of paychecks and retirement benefits. Rather than sneering at profits as somehow immoral, we should be celebrating them.
Certainly, large corporations have political power, but they are far from the only power centers in the country and hardly are united in their support of a given party, as the writer implies.
The left will continue to vilify and demonize the private business establishment to our national peril.

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DON GORDON
Clemmons

Kitty Kat's Corner 11/15/11

Do dah, Do dah.

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TU 11/15/11

General welfare
Jean-Jacques Rousseau's social contract culminated the millennia from Greco-Roman justice and Jewish responsibility through Christian charity and Muslim sharia. The U.S. codified it with its constitutional commitment to the "general welfare."
But the chameleon rightist strong man, ever diabolical in his defense of greed, has now fixed "spending" as our socio-economic enemy. The more strange and ludicrous, like the billionaire Koch brothers and their Rand-Gault offspring, never mention the waste of many homes, mansions, cars, bank accounts or girlfriends and boyfriends. Their overpaid and grandiose lifestyles elude the spending put-down in the world of plush, lush and casino capitalism.
The issue is the greed of the uncharitable few, not the necessary spending for the survival of the 95 percent. Its effect has been and remains the maldistribution of income and wealth. Until wealth escapes the treasure lairds of the 5 percent who deserve less, the 95 percent of us who should have more will continue to suffer.
It is time we shook the rhinestones of wealth for the few in favor of the riveting social well-being of the many.
Anyone who advocates the end of social progress that has brought humanitarian well-being to the many is obviously ill in outlook and capability. His message is the cry of the bestial ancestors he wishes to revisit. We must reject that Jurassic contract.

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MARCIALITO CAM
Winston-Salem

Good police work
If I lived in a high-crime area, I would not call it profiling. I would call it good police work ("City: ACLU erred on checkpoints," Nov. 5). I would call it being there to maybe stop something from going down or catch someone at the scene of the crime. It would give me a feeling of safety for me and my family.
Those who are not guilty of anything shouldn't be bothered by the stops. It's just a small delay and well worth feeling safer.

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RICK COVINGTON
Winston-Salem

Economic injustice
I have participated in the Occupy Wall Street protests and applaud what the movement is accomplishing in highlighting issues of economic injustice. Its voice has galvanized a nation. Yet let's not forget to occupy Congress and our statehouses, where Wall Street has its branch offices.
Congress has been entrusted with the economic oversight of this nation. A corporate coup d'etat could not have happened without the absolute complicity of our elected officials: the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act and the hundreds of other pieces of corrupt legislation that have sold our system to the highest bidder.
Wall Street is not going to protect us from Wall Street. What we need most is campaign-finance reform: publicly funded elections that will drain all that intoxicating swill out of the trough. We need elected officials who will pass legislation to rein in Wall Street, rather than allowing Wall Street to reign over us. We need to hold our leaders accountable so that they can hold corporate America accountable.
Our senators and representatives want to win re-election, and they need our vote to do that. Real change happens from the bottom up, but it has to go up. We need our elected officials, just as they need us. The alternative is revolution and bloodshed.
All of us can take the battle to where real change can happen, to the halls of Congress, with phone calls, letters, emails and even protests at their local offices.

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THE REV. S.J. MUNSON
Winston-Salem

Supporting the neighborhood
A sincere thank you to Wanda Merschel and the other members of the Winston-Salem City Council for voting the change at Transou and Yadkinville roads into the West Suburban Area Plan and supporting our neighborhood ("Council approves plan for western area," Nov. 7).
The great blue herons, owls, green herons, raccoons and deer thank you, too.

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NANCY HUETTEL
Pfafftown

Kitty Kat's Corner Mo 11/14/11

Fracking Chemical Found in Wyoming Water: The EPA Rules Out Agriculture

http://www.publicherald.org/archives/14224/investigative-reports/energy-investigations/fracking-energy-investigations/

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's MO 11/14/11

Just waitin on the Journal

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's Su 11/13/11

New concept
I find it ironic that our wonderful state legislators can't seem to find money to continue to fund important educational programs for our kids, such as the N.C. Teaching Fellowship program, yet they can come up with 10 times as much to fund re-election campaigns for themselves and their own political party.
Here is a new concept: Whichever legislators are able to raise the most money for state educational programs get to keep their state jobs, and the rest of them can join the nearly 11 percent of their unemployed constituents whom they could not create jobs for while in office.

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BOBBY KENNEDY
Lexington

Practical and fair
The writer of the letter "Gay marriage amendment" (Nov. 8) says that gay people already have the same rights as straight people — they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, just like straight people, even though they don't want to. And if gay marriage is allowed, he says, this will be an "additional" right just for them.
But he couldn't be more wrong. If gay marriage is allowed, then straight people, too, would have the same right — they, too, would have the right to marry people of the same sex, just like gay people, even though they don't want to.
That would seem just as practical and fair as the way the law is now. More so, actually. Because then everyone could marry who they wanted to marry, rather than who the letter-writer thinks they should marry.

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BOBBIE R. LACKEY
Winston-Salem

Economic realities
Your enthusiasm for the new solar plant in Surry ("Surry solar plant helping to lead way," Oct. 28) should be tempered by some economic realities. For starters, when spread over 25 years, the $5 million price tag for the facility amounts to more than $300 per month for each home the facility can theoretically support, assuming even a moderate return on investment. Naturally, there will also be some operational and maintenance costs associated with this facility.
Furthermore, there is absolutely no means available for storage of electricity generated by the facility with today's technology. Therefore, Duke Energy will have to maintain a duplicate set of electricity provision facilities to support these homes/businesses at times when the lack of sunshine prohibits electricity generation at this facility. Given these facts, it is easy to imagine that the cost to provide electricity to homes supported by the Surry facility will be at least four to five times more expensive than the current state average of $100 per month.
Finally, the state's electricity providers have been tasked with providing 12.5 percent of the state's electricity needs by 2021 via "alternative" sources. The state has 4.3 million housing units alone, before even getting into business/government entities. Given the economics behind today's alternative technologies, the rate increase per kwh that Duke Energy is currently requesting, and everyone so is livid about, will undoubtedly be relived again and again during the next decade. That prospect is not something the average family or business should have to contend with.

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SCOTT KEITH
Winston-Salem

Correspondence of the week

Abilene, Abilene

After listening to former lobbyist Jack Abramoff describe how nearly all our elected officials are in the pockets of lobbyists on "60 Minutes," I have a suggestion for our next president. He or she should relocate the government to Abilene, Kan. No staff or assistants of any kind; just the members of Congress, the Supreme Court, the president, vice president and Cabinet secretaries. The executive branch and maybe the Justices could fit on the Obama buses and a special train provided for Congress.
They would each be provided subsidized room and board with jobless Abilene families, which could save upward of 2,000 homes and get them to know real people. Returning Iraq veterans could be used to seal off Abilene from all outside influences. Shared, comingled, open cubicle offices could be provided in abandoned school or mall buildings.
Congress would have to write its own legislation, which would be required reading along with the entire tax code. There would be no adjournments or vacations; only conjugal visits provided via military transports every other weekend. They would be given three years to lower unemployment to 5 percent and five years to balance the budget, after which a national referendum would be held to decide if they could go back home or if Abilene should become the permanent seat of our government.

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RICHARD B. HILTON
Advance

Sum It Up

Should GOP presidential hopeful Herman Cain step out of the race because of the allegations of sexual harassment against him? Respond to letters@wsjournal.com and put "Sum It Up" in the subject header. Only signed entries please, no anonymous ones.

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's SA 11/12/11

Raising rates
I have watched and listened to all the talk and print about Duke Energy wanting to raise our rates by 18 percent ("Duke Energy CEO made $8.8M in '10," Oct. 29). This is especially galling when I read the shameful salaries these weasels make.
As best I can tell, the top five take around $20.79 million per year, and these lice want more from retired folks like me. If these shameful salaries were cut by 90 percent, there wouldn't be any need to rob their customers.
This seems to be a bigger monopoly than Standard Oil or Ma Bell.

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ROGER L. NICHOLS SR.
Kernersville

Discontent
With all the discontent American voters have with our senators and representatives, this may be the perfect time for a constitutional amendment to limit their terms in office.
With unlimited terms, they can stay in office for life. This tends to limit their desire to do what is best for our country, but instead focus on their desire for re-election.
Long-term congressmen get too cozy with lobbyists. They gain power by giving favors to new congressmen, with the expectation of the favors being returned. They become more powerful and influential, and use that for their own agendas. They typically become chairmen of the various congressional committees, which control which bills reach a vote. They can better get pork bills passed in order to influence voters in their states (such as the "bridge to nowhere").
A constitutional amendment to limit terms can be achieved as it was done to limit presidential terms.

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FRANK B. NORTHUP
Winston-Salem

Regulation tsunami
After generations of economic growth and job creation, we are now at a crossroads, adrift from the ideals that created the largest, most powerful nation in the world. Astute observers note that it is our inability to govern that brought us to this point. The regulation tsunami is a perfect example.
Federal agencies are paralyzing investment and increasing cost unnecessarily. Business does not want to discard environmental or safety regulations; it wants the opportunity to embrace well-thought-out solutions. Business needs proof that Washington will put our ship on a true course.
The first litmus test will be the deficit-reduction super-committee. All businesses will be watching the players and results closely. Can our elected royalty deliver when presented with complex, profound challenges? Failure can be measured two ways. Directly, we will have automatic spending cuts, which will cause more job losses. Indirectly, we will have continued political dysfunction breeding more fear, envy and resentment.
Failure is not an option for the super-committee. The White House and Congress should move on pro-growth tax reform combined with slowing disbursements to the wealthy, restructure entitlements with needs-based testing, and regulatory reform targeting banks deemed too big to fail (the proposed Volker Rule is 298 pages of confusion). This is not the time to vilify business and sit on our collective successes.
If Washington can draw from the effective governing of the super-committee, a useful model can be derived for the statesmen of the future.

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HIL CASSELL
Lewisville

Greenway value
As a frequent traveler on several of Winston-Salem's greenways, I appreciate the Journal's attention to this significant resource ("Local greenways taking root, with room to grow," Nov. 6). Our city may compare favorably to others in the state with regard to greenways built in the past 10 years, but that hardly gives an adequate picture of how our 16 miles really measure up.
Raleigh's greenway system, begun in 1974, currently includes 69 miles, with long stretches connecting many of the city's most popular destinations. What's more, with six substantial projects under construction and another five in the design phase, Raleigh is headed toward an astonishing 100 miles of interconnected greenways.
In Greensboro, where there are already 32 miles of completed greenway, construction has begun on the first phase of an ambitious 4-mile downtown loop that will be unique in the state. In addition, Guilford County's 15-mile Bicentennial Greenway bridging High Point and Greensboro is nearly complete. Many towns much smaller than Winston-Salem, including Wilkesboro, Jacksonville and Sanford, have undertaken greenway projects that are far more ambitious for their size than anything we have or are planning.
Clearly, other cities and towns in North Carolina see the value of a vital, connected greenway system. Improving and expanding Winston-Salem's greenways should be among our priorities, as well.

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RICK MASHBURN
Winston-Salem

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's TH 11/10/11

Sum It Up
The Sum It Up question from this past Sunday was: Is the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners right in trying to take its fight for sectarian prayer to open its meetings to the Supreme Court?

* * * * *
Yes! Unfortunately, the First Amendment is routinely misused to censor or prohibit prayer, despite the plain language of and the historical context of the First Amendment. Today's legal concept of the "separation of church and state" did not exist until the U.S. Supreme Court created such a flawed concept in 1947. The First Amendment was turned on its head then, and increasingly has been applied in ways never intended — or practiced — by the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I applaud the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners for standing up for the right of local government to do what Congress has been doing since the nation's founding — opening its sessions with uncensored prayer.

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DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS

* * * * *
Yes, far right.

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KAM BENFIELD

* * * * *
Absolutely no! They are only trying to please some Christian supporters who have been very vocal.
As a Christian, I am so frustrated that Christians like these have become the face of Christianity when I know in my heart that they are only a small minority of Christians.
The majority of Christians are much more concerned that 1 out of 4 children in Forsyth County don't have enough to eat. All that money being spent to act like Pharisees would go a long way toward helping these children.
I want everyone to know that these are just the people who make the news. The vast majority of us are trying quietly to follow the teachings of Jesus to take care of the needy.
As Americans we must respect the rights of people of other religions not to believe as we do.
By the way, the God that I worship hears silent prayers just fine.

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CYNTHIA GOUGH NANCE

* * * * *
The Forsyth County Board of Commissioners is not right in taking its fight for sectarian prayer to the Supreme Court because it is predominantly Christian sectarian prayer it is fighting for. Would it be taking this stand for Hindu, Jewish or Muslim prayers? I think not. We need to be respectful of all religions, as well as cognizant of atheist beliefs. Prayer of any sort does not belong in government. It is my understanding that this is what separation of church and state is all about. Apparently our misguided commissioners don't understand this.

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SUZANNE CARROLL

* * * * *
American democracy has endured at least in part because it has guaranteed its citizens freedom of religion. Its citizens are able to profess any faith they choose without the approval or interference of government. When any official body starts to involve itself in religious rituals or preferences, our fundamental freedom is in danger. Forsyth County commissioners have no business trying to enforce prayer on its citizens.
That there is any possibility that public tax money could be wasted to this end is an absolute wrong. Have a moment of silence before a meeting if you must, but don't tell me to whom it should be directed.

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HAYES McNEILL

* * * * *
Is the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners right in trying to take its fight for sectarian prayer to open its meetings to the Supreme Court?
Absolutely not! It's a waste of time and money.

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PAT EISENACH

* * * * *
No, this fight is not right. This embarrassing issue with our elected county commissioners is getting old. Elected folks should abide by the laws (whether local, state or federal) they were elected to enforce, not pick and choose to suit their religious or personal needs. If they wish to pray, let them find an empty office before board meetings, form a circle, join hands and pray to their hearts' content. Better yet, each should lock his or her office door and pray alone. Why?
I believe the Bible said (paraphasing here) that if you preach on a corner, i.e. in a public government meeting, then your reward will be people hearing you. Better to pray in a closet, where your reward will be God hearing you. Enough already!

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PATRICIA STOCKMEISTER

* * * * *
Absolutely not! Anyone, spared from the crippling effects of pious intellectual bondage and subsequent evidential denial, can clearly see that the county commissioners fail miserably in upholding the Constitution and carrying out their civic duties!

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LARRY J. SANDERS

* * * * *
Absolutely not. I am involved or have been involved in six interfaith organizations in our community, and all have learned how to deliver non-sectarian prayer. I am the current head of one county-wide organization that decided at its first meeting to skip prayer, even though in writing the agenda, from my interfaith background, I had automatically included "prayer."

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BOB CONN

* * * * *
Forsyth County commissioners insisting on sectarian prayer to open their meetings and taking their case to the Supreme Court must disgust God when so many of his children in our community are poor, hungry and without adequate health care.
Seems a better use of funding to care for "the least of these" than to make a big fuss over the act of praying aloud. A moment of silence would be recognized by God and not offend anyone. I cannot help but wonder if those who voted to proceed to the Supreme Court are simply vying for attention in hopes of their re-election. I question their motives.

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MARY ANNECELLI

* * * * *
I believe Jesus Christ said all that needs to be said. Quote: "Again, when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues and at the street corners, in order that they may be seen by men."

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STEVE WINSTON

* * * * *
Honesty with the commissioners and their ability to work together is more important than paying lawyers so that they can pray at meetings. Say a silent prayer and get on with business.

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ELIZABETH R. ERVIN

* * * * *
How ridiculous to spend time and money pursuing an outcome that is already available to everyone. If you want to pray, do it. Nobody will try to stop your private silent prayer. If it goes on too long, a bystander or bysitter might think you are in a trance, and haul you off to the ER. But that can be avoided by a little self control.

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ANNE PAISLEY

* * * * *

---

Absolutely not. Why spend time and money on this while other issues are left unhandled? Some seem to tout their religiosity while overlooking the instructions that Jesus gave about prayer in Matthew 6:6.

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NAOMI J. DAVIS

42 comments:

Bob said...

This post has been removed by the author.

November 10, 2011 5:55 AM

Bob said...

Deb,it's not a flawed concept at all. All one has to do is know one's history of the mixture of church and state, England, France, Russia, Spain, Iran,... to realize it's an unholy alliance. 1947 Everson v Board of Education was NOT the first time the idea was used in a "legal" definition: 1879 Reynolds v United States. Besides the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was not added until 1954 and In God We Trust" 1956. So your 1947 "argument" does not pass muster. And even if it was 1947, so?

November 10, 2011 5:58 AM

Bob said...

In God We Trust became the motto in 1956, it was added to coins in 1864, and paper not until 1957. There's your original intent.

November 10, 2011 6:04 AM

Bob said...

Was not E Pluribus Unum also original intent?

November 10, 2011 6:32 AM

Bob said...

Joe Walsh is a bully and he blames it on coffee, right!!!!

November 10, 2011 6:57 AM

Bob said...

Bucky, Joe Paterno wasn't pushed out, he was fired. Penn State and Joe Paterno are no better than the Catholic Church and the pope.

November 10, 2011 7:34 AM

Bob said...

It's sickening.

November 10, 2011 7:35 AM

Anonymous said...

Hey Bucky, please see about having that anal sphincter they're developing at Baptist implanted into your mouth. It'll help prevent the outflow of the stupid $hit that typically dribbles from your mouth ...

November 10, 2011 7:51 AM

Bob said...

Rick Perry: "I don't remember, oops."

November 10, 2011 7:52 AM

LaSombra said...

One wonders if Bucky's bad end is jealous of the poop that comes out of his mouth.

November 10, 2011 10:16 AM

O. T. Rush said...

Deb gets her "facts" the same place Buckdump and other fools gets theirs...out of thin air.

A few of Buckbottom's idiocies just from yesterday:

Joe Paterno, one of the greatest college football coaches of all time, has to retire because of a homosexual, pedophilic employee.

No, he has been fired because he did not do his job.

Their union vote will cause them to lose jobs…

And of course, he offers indisputable proof of this line parroted from Rush/Fox/Fool’s Network.

Rapes of men are now being reported at OWS protests.

There has been one uncorroborated report by one person of a rumor about a rape of a deaf man. She did not see the rape, nor has she even seen the supposed victim. Among sane, educated, people, that is considered to be just what it is, a rumor.

November 10, 2011 11:06 AM

Bob said...

Bucky, facts? you say 6% males are gay, I can go with that
-However, they seem to find themselves in the middle of sex crimes incredibly often.
not a fact or statistic, only a conjecture, what is incredibly often mean?
-Joe Paterno, legendary, yes, but not pushed, fired along with the president of the university.
-"was pushed out of his job when it was learned that a homosexual, pedophilic employee, Jerry Sandusky, was discovered to have had sex with several little boys." False, not a fact at all. It was learned that Sandusky had sex with boys back in 1998 and Joe Pa learned in 2002, it was discovered years ago, this is 2011
-another adage, En boca cerrada no entran moscas.

November 10, 2011 11:13 AM  

 

O. T. Rush said...

Jeez, now, in addition to making stuff up, he's hallucinating. Ads?

November 10, 2011 12:49 PM

dotnet said...

Good afternoon folks!
Sum it up: The concensus appears to be the CC's erred, with which I agree. Besides, I'm sure there's plenty of "Dear Lord, please don't let the commissioners do anything stupid" prayers said before the meeting as well as "Thank God this meeting is over" prayers said afterwards to suffice.

November 10, 2011 1:50 PM

O. T. Rush said...

The CCs did a lot more than just err. They allowed a private group to influence the decision to appeal by promising to pay the legal costs. It is estimated that once the case is lost, the county will owe about $2 million. Good luck on getting the private group to pay up. It will end up being we taxpayers who pay.

Secondly, the CCs then allowed an outside private agency to actually handle the legal matters. This agency has a specific religious agenda that in no way represents the religious beliefs of the majority of Forsyth County residents and has no business meddling in county business, but the crybabies Whisenhunt and Conrad stampeded the others into pursuing this foolish quest.

All of this is almost certainly unconstitutionl. Maybe the ACLU will file another lawsuit on that matter and people will finally wise up and throw these fundamentalist idiots out of office.

November 10, 2011 2:49 PM

dotnet said...

OT, I'm curious about the exact arrangement the county had with that group that said it would pay the expenses. Was this just an oral agreement or was there any sort of binding agreement? If that group reneges, can it be sued? I've had a very strong feeling all along that the county will be the one paying out.

November 10, 2011 3:03 PM

O. T. Rush said...

The case is being tried by lawyers from the Alliance Defense Fund, a national organization. There is no charge for their services, but if the appeal actually goes forward, and the county loses, the county would be liable for the costs incurred by the ACLU, and the ADF would not pay for that.

That is where the N.C. Partnership for Religious Liberty (NCPRL) comes in. They are a regional group headed by Steve Corts, son of Calvary Baptist Church's legendary Mark Corts. They agreed to pay the ACLU's side of the bill. Conrad says that they have signed a contract, but it doesn't really matter, because if they don't pay up, a lawsuit would be fruitless. You cannot collect damages from someone who has no assets.

The good news is that the Supreme Court is highly unlikely to accept the case because they have already ruled on a similar case. In the end it is all about political posturing and playing to the fundamentalists.

What amuses me about this case is that it flies in the face of Jesus's warning about the phony Pharisees making a big to-do about praying in public. One would think that real christians would heed Jesus's word.

November 10, 2011 3:42 PM   

Bob said...

Bucky, leering happens at the beach, on the street, at church, in the grocery store. If you don't want to be leered, then stay home. Sandusky is also married, maybe he is bisexual. No matter what, he is a preditor and a monster and those who allowed it to continue,ie Joe Paterno, are monsters too.

November 10, 2011 4:05 PM

Wordly said...

In Bucky's defense, there is an ad WFU women's soccer at the top of this page.

November 10, 2011 4:15 PM

Bob said...

It's amazing that people will protect a predator in order to keep the good name of "their" institution.

November 10, 2011 4:15 PM

Bob said...

yes, it changes at time. My bad, it's not easy to copy the LTE's without a subscription.

November 10, 2011 4:16 PM

O. T. Rush said...

I took Buckram 90 words to say absoluteley nothing.

November 10, 2011 4:18 PM

Wordly said...

I think there is a blogspot option to add some type of advertising. I don't what advantage that is for the blogger. Possibly less disappearing post?

November 10, 2011 4:34 PM

Bob said...

there probably is an advertising option and as far as I know the only person who can make a post disappear is the poster.

November 10, 2011 4:41 PM

Bob said...

I can delete an entire day, but not individual posts except my own which I do occasionally.

November 10, 2011 4:42 PM

Bob said...

:) I subscribed to the digital journal today, so it will be easier to post the LTE's now.

November 10, 2011 4:43 PM

November 10, 2011 5:32 PM

Bob said...

The New Republican Mountain Bike: 1 forward gear and 26 reverses for back peddling.

November 10, 2011 5:32 PM

.

November 10, 2011 5:37 PM

Bob said...

you never were a member, you will have to show me the long form to prove it.

November 10, 2011 5:

November 10, 2011 5:45 PM

Bob said...

I don't know what you mean, ever.

November 10, 2011 5:46 PM

O. T. Rush said...

It's obvious that Buckler knows nothing about psychology, especially what we used to call abnormal psych.

From the info so far, it is obvious that monster Sandusky was into preteen boys, so he wouldn't have had much interest in the Penn State football players. In fact, he might well have found older boys and men repellent. That's the way that mindset works.

Keep on revealing your ignorance, Bucklet. It's fascinating watching a supposed adult show his butt, sort of like the fascination of watching a train wreck that you can do nothing to stop.

November 10, 2011 5:53 PM

O. T. Rush said...

I don't see any ads because I never see any ads anywhere. If you are using Safari or Firefox or Chrome, just Google the name of your browser and "adblock", install it, and you will see no more ads.

I doubt if there is one for Internet Explorer because it is about 10 years behind the times.

November 10, 2011 5:55 PM

Bob said...

to quote a great republican philosopher: "oops"

November 10, 2011 6:14 PM