Another prayer decision
Ever since the U.S. Supreme Court decided not to hear the appeal of the Forsyth County commissioners against the ACLU over sectarian prayer, many citizens of the Piedmont Triad and the Journal editorial board have stated their opinions on this decision. Each of them seemed to be pleased that the Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal that came from our commissioners after the prayers were deemed unconstitutional by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, whose opinions cover the states of Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina.
It has apparently escaped these commentators that the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, whose opinions cover the states of Alabama, Florida and Georgia, had decided in a similar case in 2008 that the ACLU filed against the commissioners in Cobb County, Ga., that it held no merit. This allowed sectarian prayer to continue before that body.
This should concern my fellow citizens of the Piedmont Triad. I was unaware that we in Forsyth County live under a different U.S. Constitution than the fine folks of Cobb County, Ga. That should send a shiver down the spine of each resident of this great county.
TIM McGUIRE
Clemmons
For Parrish
I see in the Journal that Carl Parrish is running for Superior Court judge. I've known Carl for over 10 years, and he is a man of integrity. He is sincere, honest and fair. I believe he would make an excellent judge. He's my choice hands down. Vote for Carl.
WILLIAM SAMS
King
Entitlement system
The writer of the March 7 letter "Faith and health care" assumes columnist Cal Thomas thinks God is against health-care improvements and government programs to help the needy based on his Feb. 29 column "The God gap." I truly believe that Cal Thomas and most Americans, regardless of political party, are compassionate and will always be there to help those in need. But there is a difference in can't and won't. Why is it the government's responsibility to support a woman who reproduces without regard to how she will take care of her children?
We create a government pre-school program to educate them when the parents won't. We reward people with government health care for maladies such as headaches, backaches, depression and obesity and call them disabilities. We have created a system that makes it easier to settle for assistance instead of trying to solve the problem.
There is no reform of any kind, only a massive entitlement system in place for which this country needs a 12-step intervention.
As a productive citizen, I personally am tired of working 40 hours a week to take care of my family when others sit around and expect me to take care of them. Is God for health-care improvements and helping the needy? I'm sure he is. But I believe he is also for using our God-given ability to think, work and practice birth control.
BETSY F. IDOL
Winston-Salem
Jesus of social justice
I count myself among the followers of Jesus. Yet I am perplexed that the main issues some Christians seem to care about are abortion and homosexuality. I surely want to see fewer abortions. And I am committed to equality for people whose sexual orientation is different from mine. But I have studied, taught, prayed and preached the Bible for half a century and have yet to discover where Jesus had much, if anything, to say about either of those important matters. However, Jesus had a lot to say about other vital concerns.
What about the Jesus who cared deeply about the poor and hungry, feeding more than 5,000 with a few loaves and fishes? How can the Jesus who said "Blessed are the poor" and who warned about laying up treasures on earth be seen as valuing riches?
What about the Jesus who was passionate about health, spending much of his ministry healing the sick and casting out demons? Can we ignore the Jesus who brought compassion and wholeness to those diseased in body, mind or spirit?
What about the Jesus who was committed to nonviolence and peacemaking, choosing to die rather than to fight, even seeking forgiveness for those who killed him?
What about the Jesus who embraced equality and justice, who elevated women, children and minorities, counted outcasts as his friends and encouraged his followers to welcome strangers?
People of faith have more than one or two issues to consider as we evaluate potential public servants this year.
THE REV. STEWART ELLIS
Clemmons
LTE #1 - It sends a shiver down my spine that the 11th Circuit is such a backward place.
ReplyDeleteLTE #3 - Another selfish tax whiner.
LTE #4 - Stewart Ellis is pastor of Trinity Presbyterian Church, a fine man and a true Christian.
The people that he speaks of are christian in name only, because they ignore the Sermon on the Mount, in which Jesus literally lays down the law, concisely summarizing all of his teachings in one place.
You've obviously never met Judge Stanley Marcus of the 11th Circuit. He has one of the most brilliant legal minds in the United States.
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Marcus_(judge)
The 11th Circuit ruled against Obamacare.
Lte1...it is perplexing I'll agree. I personally don't care about a prayer before a public meeting....maybe one After the meeting? It seems that when it comes to breaching the first amendment, it depends on who you are and what the subject is and most importantly, how valuable the breach is to what matters most today---and that is the current pop culture. We are a nation in search of a spine for a shiver to run up.
ReplyDeleteHUMMMMM . . . prayer after the meeting would still allow those that need the fix to get it, and those that don't need it to leave. An interesting concept, but it could be argued that the prayer is for guidance before, not a after, the meeting. Much like a thankful prayer before a meal.
DeleteHah! Maybe the prayer could be along the lines of "Lord, what have we done"?
Delete;-)
DeleteI would suggest "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
DeleteUnfortunately, Hell is passe...the only people who still believe in it are so-called christians who are hoping against hope that their rivals and anyone else who they don't approve of, will go there.
In 1995, Alice K. Turner, then the fiction editor of Playboy Magazine, in conjunction with some of the greatest scholars in the world, published an elaborately illustrated book entitled The History of Hell.
I remember paying about $50 for a first edition. You can now purchase the same hardcover book at Amazon for about $17.50.
The book contains descriptions and images of Hell as imagined by thinkers and artists from Plato and Augustine to Dante, Milton, Calvin, Byron and T. S. Eliot and from cultures such as the Sumerians, Egyptians, Zoroastrians, Greeks, Romans, Jews and Christians.
I do not recall a single image portraying a convocation of the US House of Representatives, a gathering of Cabinet members in the White House or any local county commissioners meeting. Perhaps the book needs an update.
"I was unaware that we in Forsyth County live under a different U.S. Constitution than the fine folks of Cobb County, Ga."
ReplyDeleteNo, but they live in another appeals court circuit. Different legal interpretations between circuits happen from time to time.
Lte3..the answer to your questions really boils down to the fact that there is an industry to be served by all that you complain about. Any suggestion or attempt to reform is met with howls of protest and even claims of lack of chivalry for suggesting it, so on and on it goes. If this writer is productive as she claims, then she is part of the enabling problem. The half of the population that pays no Federal income taxes is being poorly served by the half that does not pay its fair share. I'll bet this writer is stuck in the second half. Resolve to do better.
ReplyDeleteLte4...I can imagine your line of work is very challenging today, what with a secular culture that demands constant sacrifice of innocence and all that results. I could not do your job. Your questions are all good and fair and maybe you wonder why we have allowed our political masters to set social policy over the last 40 years that has resulted in a overwhelming of the means to care for our less fortunate? Government only creates more. As to your first question, abortion and homosexuality, they are both involved deeply in the secular culture just mentioned. A great deal of money is also involved with both. Money talks. The secular culture is driven by the nexus of three things: abortion, affirmative action and a growing welfare state. Our cultural rot is pressing hard against the church door. Good luck.
ReplyDeletewhitewall: some very profound statements. Our politicians HAVE set social policies that have resulted in some unforeseeable mucky dependance on Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, AFDC/Welfare, and Food Stamps/SNAP. For our politicians to try to phase out two of the four I've mentioned would mean political suicide, and sorties of bleeding hearts woulds storm DC in defense of the other two were they to attempt to phase them out.
DeleteRe abortion and homosexuality: both are deeply involved in BOTH the secular AND the religious culture. I have first hand knowledge of many woman in my social circles who've made difficult choices re abortion and contraception WITHOUT the consent and knowledge of their church. Let's face it, it's essentially their choice, not the church's. And the "cultural rot" sitting in the pew next to me in church 30+ years ago is and forever will be a homosexual. Amen.
Sorry for the tangent rant; I've been away for awhile, just had to let it out! ;-)
LaSombra....all rants are welcome as I do one myself at times. Our cultural rot is now extended to elementary age girls-boys as well- in an effort to hypersexualize everything they see. Teenage entertainers lately have large followings among younger girls who copy every aspect of their idol's life. These entertainers reach 18 years old and can't wait to get their inner tramp on as far as they can until they are 21 and then let it all hang out. Process then repeats. While the young girls watch. This is what I mean by loss of innocense and culture rot. I know what you mean about the choices as I know and have known people like you describe.
DeleteLTE@1: Piedmont Triad citizens are not necessarily pleased, but there WAS a collective and resounding "DUH!!!".
ReplyDeleteIt can be suggested, maybe, that our Forsyth County, NC Commissioners ask the Cobb County, GA Commissioners to share notes and try again. You know what they say about doing things over and over again . . . ?
Mr. McGuire: If you've ever had any experience with liberals, you would know that they like to distort positions to make them come out the way they want.
ReplyDeleteSince the Supreme Court refused to hear the case, we have no real clear guidance as to what their position is on the matter.
We know one thing, liberals have declared war on Christians. We don't need the Supreme Court to tell us that.
Rev Ellis:
ReplyDeleteHere's one verse, and there are several others since you've obviously forgotten.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
I think that verse makes it pretty clear.
Leviticus 15:
ReplyDelete19. And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
20. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.
21. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
22. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
23. And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.
As to prayer issue, the Supreme Court gave very specific guidelines in Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783, 794 (1983)
And the 11th circuit ruled only on the "individual mandate" portion of the healthcare law. They found the rest OK.
Stupid is as stupid does.
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
DeleteWhat part of 'detestable' don't you understand?
Nowhere in the ENTIRE chapter of Lev. 18 (NIV) does it forbid sexual relations with animals which leads me to point out: Our great state of North Carolina is WASTING valuable time AND MONEY having us vote on the WRONG THING!
DeleteActually, sex with animals is forbidden four times in the Old Testament, in Exodus, Deuteronomy and twice in Leviticus. In the first instance in Leviticus, no penalty is specified…it is simply declared a "perversion.
DeleteIn Deuteronomy the transgressor is merely "cursed". The death penalty is prescribed in both Exodus and the second mention in Leviticus, which is my favorite:
"And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
Leviticus 20:16
So we're going to execute the goat, too. He probably said something like "Hey, baby, who's your daddy" and she shot shot back "Show me what you got, big boy", so they are equally guilty. Note that the act does not actually have to happen just as long as she "lie down thereto". This reveals a striking ignorance of how goats actually copulate, but consider the source.
If you can think of something sexual, it is almost certainly forbidden somewhere in the bible. But there is one that is not, even though millions of clueless christians think that it is. Masturbation.
They cite this:
6. And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
7. And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
8. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
Genesis 38: 6-10
Yes, Onan clearly masturbated. But that is not why god "slew" him. He slew him for disobeying orders to get Tamar pregnant. So if we masturbate strictly for fun (I'm sure no one on this forum ever has), it's OK as long as it's not a tactic for getting around obeying a direct order from god.
As we approached puberty, my friends and I were made aware that if we masturbated, hair would grow in the palms of our hands, or worse. But it didn't. And we were not slew or slewed or whatever either.
Genesis is my favorite OT book, because god took care of things himself back then. None of this "thou shalt" stuff authorizing us to execute in his name.
We never really get told about his methods…did he use stones, a firing squad, "Old Sparky", or merely snap his fingers? Nothing like a good mystery.
NAACP wants voter corruption to continue at all costs.
ReplyDelete_________________
Officials from the NAACP are presenting their case against U.S. voter ID laws, arguing to the international diplomats that the requirements disenfranchise voters and suppress the minority vote.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/14/un-delves-into-us-voter-id-laws/#ixzz1p7vb81wA