Pro Humanitate
As members of the Wake Forest community, we were very saddened to read the outrageous attack on Imam Khalid Griggs in the May 21 paid advertisement, "Did you just waste $200,000 on a Wake Forest education?"
We want the Winston-Salem community to know that Khalid is a man of peace, compassion and deep faith. This past winter, the imam co-led an interfaith pilgrimage to the Holy Land composed of Wake Forest undergraduates and divinity students and local clergy members. In breaking bread with Khalid both in Israel and in Winston-Salem, we found a man who has a passion for social justice and interfaith dialogue. As Christians, we appreciate how he helps us understand the value and importance of religious faith and religious difference in our pluralistic society.
Wake Forest University's mission is to educate the whole person, graduating students who seek purpose-filled lives while building a community dedicated to serving humanity in the spirit of our motto, Pro Humanitate . In Khalid, we were introduced to a teacher and a friend with the highest sense of integrity. In Khalid, we found the embodiment of Pro Humanitate . It is our sincere hope that many more members of the Wake Forest community will have their lives enriched and empowered by leaders like Khalid Griggs.
We are disappointed at the lack of rational and civil discourse in our local paper, and we protest the publisher's decision to accept a hateful personal attack as a paid advertisement.
NEAL WALLS
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, DIVINITY SCHOOL
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY
BOB STILLERMAN
MASTER OF DIVINITY CANDIDATE, DIVINITY SCHOOL
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY
Winston-Salem
Start a dialogue
Lisa O'Donnell did a good job of stating why I took out an ad in the May 22 Journal criticizing Imam Griggs, the assistant chaplain at Wake Forest University ("Ad criticizing Muslim chaplain at WFU draws fire"). It is to start a dialogue, and educate people, on the nature, intent and threat of Shariah law infiltrating itself into American institutions and laws.
Ibrahim Hooper, the spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, is quoted in the article as saying, "It's a big concern that a reputable newspaper would publish that kind of unanswered hate without giving the person targeted some kind of opportunity to respond or challenge whether it should even be published."
Wake Forest and the Imam have had numerous opportunities, dating back to August 2011, to respond or challenge my evidence, but refuse to do so. No doubt they hope if they ignore it long enough, it will go away. I can assure them that neither this issue nor I will fade away. Anyone who cares about America or Wake Forest should be outraged at their failure to address the issue.
DONALD WOODSMALL
Charlottesville, Va.
More conversation needed
"Did you just waste $200,000 on a Wake Forest education?"
The May 21 advertisement painting Wake Forest University Chaplain Khalid Griggs as a "Shariah supremacist" plays on people's uninformed fears. As in recent attempts to ban Shariah , the word is used as a bogeyman that stirs up hatred.
It would be helpful if people knew that Shariah is a dynamic, evolving process of Islamic religious law. Because Islam has no centralized authority (like the Vatican), Shariah is determined locally by trained scholars. There are many schools of legal reasoning in Islam, so Shariah differs widely across time and place. It is a process of reasoning, not a list of laws. The term "Shariah supremacist" therefore makes little sense.
Furthermore, as the Quran envisions it, Shariah regulates public and private aspects of life for those living in a legal system based entirely on Muslim principles. Some Muslim scholars argue that no society on earth today meets this criterion. And contrary to what the fear-mongers imply, there are no Muslim groups advocating for the United States to become such a society.
When Muslims are minorities, their religion tells them to abide by the law of the land. Shariah functions as a guide for day-to-day (unfrightening) practices of diet, hygiene, family systems, etc.
Don Woodsmall, who sponsored the advertisement, is correct that we would benefit from more conversation on religious pluralism. Let's support organizations such Interfaith Winston-Salem (www.if-ws.org), of which Imam Griggs is a part, and make this happen.
MICHELLE VOSS ROBERTS
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, DIVINITY SCHOOL
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY
Winston-Salem
A silver lining
There may just be a silver lining to this recent amendment vote after all.
I am told that corporations are considered to be people. Thus Duke Energy and Progress Energy are people. The fact that they both provide similar services and have similar infrastructures and corporate values leads me to believe that they are of the same sex. It seems to me that their recent efforts to consummate a merger come close to representing a marriage or at least some form of civil union, which is now proscribed under our state constitution.
Who knows? Maybe North Carolina has unwittingly given birth to a new form of anti-trust legislation. Just think; if this amendment had been in place a few years earlier, we might still have Wachovia to call our own.
ROBERT KOCH
Lexington
Pay their own way
I read with interest that there will be no Fourth of July fireworks display at Tanglewood Park this year because of a lack of sponsorship ("July 4 fireworks show canceled," May 22). I think that it is good for the Forsyth County commissioners to not put the funds forward for the display. I also think we, the taxpayers of Forsyth County, could save even more of our tax money by not having the commissioners take home a salary.
Those folks, the members of the commission, do not need to have a salary of any kind whatsoever. They should serve Forsyth County because they want to serve — not to make money.
I recommend the commissioners should serve with only their legal expenses covered by us, the taxpayers. I would recommend only $52 a year for postage, to start with.
Who do the commissioners think they are? Some sort of band of big shots who have their way paid by the taxpayers of Forsyth County?
The time has come to save more money by banning salaries to the elected, actually volunteer, commissioners. If they want the job, let them pay their own way.
Next, let us look at the Winston-Salem City Council members. Who do they think they are? That is for a later submission.
H.J. SCHAFFER
LTE #1,2,3 - To attack the Journal for running such an ad is to show ignorance of how a newspaper works. I'm sure that there have been many ads over the years, especially hateful political ads, that the Journal would have preferred not to publish.
ReplyDeleteBut once they begin picking and choosing which ads they will run, they are getting into the realm of censorship. Since newspapers are among our greatest 1st amendment champions, that would be a bit hypocritical, wouldn't it?
Most newspapers do refuse to carry obscene ads, and it certainly could be argued that the personal attack on Imam Griggs is obscene, but not in the legal sense.
As to Donald Woodsmall, he is a peckerwood, Tea Party sub-species of homo sapiens, the very sort, who given any power at all, would destroy our democratic republic in a flash.
LTE #4 - Mildly amusing.
LTE #5 - The fireworks don't really matter, because long ago all of our holidays became meaningless due to commercialism and neglect. As far as most people are concerned, they are just another long weekend.
As to paying the commissioners…they put in long hours and get little respect for it. I am pretty unhappy with several of them myself, but I have no problem with paying them for their time. We just need to elect better people to the office.
Great points O.T. I missed Mr. Woodsmall's advertisement, but I'm for almost anything that keeps the local paper viable. Commissioners do deserve compensation, but not sure what that has to do with Fireworks or lack thereof.
DeleteDave Plyler's the only Republican I regularly vote for.
DeleteDitto, which is a shame. I used to vote for number of Republicans every election, but since the party went insane, that has ended.
DeleteDave should get some sort of award for being the only consistently sane person on the board, trapped as he is between Walter Marshall on the one hand and Gloria Whisenhunt and Bill Whiteheart on the other.
I used to vote for a few local Democrats, but I've cut that out now. Even if the person is decent, the party will screw them up. So I just don't take any chances.
DeleteAfter seeing how Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama have acted over the last four years, that sure broke me, permanently, from Democrats.
They oughta change the Democratic Party's name to the A-Holes. That name would fit better.
DeleteThe Journal censored the race of perpetrators of crimes for more than 30 years. Plus, they left out all of the corrupt activities that N.C. Democrats were engaged in for years. What would be the big deal about censoring an ad?
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that many smaller towns have bigger newspapers than WS now. Why doesn't Media General just throw in the towel, and let somebody that knows what they're doing start a new paper?
As everyone but you-know-who already knows, Media General doesn't own the Winston-Salem Journal any more.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that. Well, then, why doesn't whoever owns the paper throw in the towel? It's rubbish anyway!
DeleteI guess Media General knew it had a loser on its hands, and they dumped the Journal. Good for them!
DeleteWarren Buffett bought media general.
DeleteRubbish, being an above ground phenomenon, ranks well above the slime that seeps up into the gutter.
ReplyDeleteRomney leads Obama 58%-34% among veterans, who make up about 13% of the electorate, Gallup reports.
ReplyDelete__________
At least we know most of our former soldiers have got some sense.
President George W. Bush won the veteran vote by 16 percentage points in his 2004 race against Democrat and Vietnam veteran Sen. John Kerry.
ReplyDeleteMcCain won in 2008 against Obama, though only by 10 percent, 54 percent to 45 percent.
A recent Wall Street Journal-NBC poll shows Romney leading Obama by 8 percentage points among military voters. But a Reuters-Ipsos poll shows Obama winning the veterans' vote over Romney by as much as 7 percentage points.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/26/romney-obama-compete-for-veteran-vote-florida-emerging-as-battleground/#ixzz1wBkPBrWJ
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/05/gallup-romney-tops-obama-with-veterans/1?csp=34news#.T8O9INUS2o8
DeleteThe only poll that really counts is in November.
DeleteThe gallop poll also states: Obama and Romney are tied overall at 46% apiece among all registered voters in this sample," Gallup reports. "Men give Romney an eight-point edge, while women opt for Obama over Romney by seven points.
DeleteTrue. Barring some huge event, it will come down to whether big business and the PACs can buy enough votes or shut out enough Democratic voters to offset Obama's superiority on the ground.
DeleteOf course, there's always Wag the Dog. If Obama can somehow induce the Iranians to attack one of our aircraft carriers, he's back for four more.
American's do love their wars and are wont to retain commanders in mid-battle. Certainly worked for CheneyBush.
Do you remember when the Democrats tried to stop the active soldiers votes from being counted because of technicality?
DeleteHow utterly disgusting can you get?
Only ten points? That's quite a bit. I think.
DeleteYeah, I figure the bombing of Iran will start about two months before the election, because the polls are going to keep going down for Obama.
DeleteWithout a war, there's no way in hell Obama will be elected.
As I recall, George Soros is big business. And like it or not, so are labor unions. Obama will have spent > $600MM by the time the election is held, nevermind the super-PAC's that support him. Don't tell me all that dough comes from nickel-and-dime contributors.
DeleteAs of the end of April, Obama has raised $390.9 million and spent $220.7 million, mostly on state organizations. Romney has raised $157.1 million and spent $139.7 million.
DeleteBut here is the info on nickle-and-dime contributors as Stab calls them, contributions of $200 or less:
Romney has raised about $11 million from small contributors, about 7%.
Obama has raised $188 million from small contributors, 48.1%.
As mentioned previously, unions are expected to spend about $400 million, which includes cash and in kind contributions, in all races, national and state, a mere drop in the bucket of the expected $9.8 billion.
And how will that $9.8B be split between left and right?
DeleteAnd how much will unions spend to install their trained seals in Congress and state legislatures?
DeleteAs already stated twice, the $400 million projection includes ALL spending at the national and state levels in ALL campaigns.
DeleteI don't know how much plainer it can be stated. Did a union official kill somebody in your family or run over your dog?
Unions turn good people into parasites.
DeleteIf you weren't a hoodlum before you joined a union, you'll be one during and after your membership in a union. That's what I always say.
DeleteO.T., I been wanting to ask Stab that same question. I surmise that he lived in California for awhile, and had to pay union dues in order to work, and that he just plain detested the politician his union supported.
DeleteIn N.C. unions are really not an issue as we have the lowest unionized work force in the nation at 2.9%.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm
Overall union membership has declined over the last 3 decades and the inflation adjusted wages for most workers have remained stagnant during this same time period.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-labor-union-decline
What ever the union did to him it must have been pretty bad.
Reminds me of a Simpsons scene. The local news is trying to hype a snow storm. Kent Brockman says to the weatherman:
Delete"What's the death toll on that killer blizzard Johnny?"
"Well Kent, right now it's zero, but it's poised to shoot right up!"
"Oh my god, DAMN YOU SNOW!"
OT, Teamster goons beat up Dad years ago when he was unable to display a union card through no fault of his. So, the family outlook toward benign unions is somewhat jaundiced.
DeleteActually, I deal with union members every day (spoke with a local's prez last week), and union representatives regularly. The contacts are always cordial, correct, and courteous. I have even told employees who don't think they are receiving benefits guaranteed under contract to contact their reps to verify the contractual obligations and to work the corporate people. That is what unions are supposed to do, represent their members and ensure that contractual obligations are met.
As I have said before, my antipathy toward unions is based on their insistence on membership regardless of employee preference, to the extent of not allowing the employee to freely vote on the matter.
I remain puzzled that you and the other liberals on this site turn a blind eye to this coercion while decrying other forms of coercion: compelling NC women to have ultrasound exams prior to AB's (a requirement that I oppose as well); refusing to allow gays to marry (I voted against the amendment); voter ID (which I now oppose after reading reasoning here, mostly from the sagacious dotnet). Your response, OT, is that card check, for example, doesn't really make that much difference, economically. Well, neither do those other items, but that ain't the point: it's suppression of individual rights that is the point, but that doesn't seem to make an impression.
Unions have caused a lot of damage. As I noted previously, public sector unions's ability to buy pols and then "negotiate" contracts with those same pols has contributed to inefficiency and excessive costs in government activity. Probably much worse has been the damage that union-supported legislators have done to various governmental budgets in various places, CA being a glaring example. Yes, CA had a doofuss R gov for a while, but its Assembly, heavily packed with union-backed pols, has controlled legislation for decades.
In the private sector, I point to shuttered manufacturing plants in Rust Belt states and ascribe partial responsibility to unions for that (not all, however; management shares blame).
So, in closing, I invite you liberals to explain your support of or blind eye to the coercion factor, and to explain how increased union membership will improve things. Unions drive up prices. Both the 99% and the 1% pay those prices. I am in the 99%, so explain how I benefit.
What about non-members who might benefit from collective bargaining agreements? Doesn't that make them free riders? If a company wants to negotiate individually with them, wouldn't that lead to morale problems? I think the answer to both questions is yes.
DeleteUnions have also meant higher wages and better working conditions. I don't trust our Galtian overlords to give us those things out of the goodness of their hearts.
I'll let OT give a more detailed rebuttal...I know better than to argue with you over this.
No, I have never had to pay union dues, but would pay them if it meant keeping food on the table. I would not invoke my right here in NC not to join a union if that were an option, as I value uncut tires (there have been 4000 incidents of union violence since 1990--not all these folks are idealists). I would invoke my right to have withheld that part of my dues that would go politics, even though that is an understated amount.
DeleteLast fall, when I had gone unpaid for a couple of months by my then-employer, I sought employment wherever I could find it. I was accepted for interview by an employer who informed me that I would have to join the union should I be offered the position (Federal law allows this for some types of businesses even in RTW states). As it happened, I was offered a similar job by another employer, non-union, at 1/3 higher pay and better benefits. Better hours, too. I declined the union job interview, of course.
I often cite the NLRB's suing Boeing for opening the Charleston non-union plant. That plant was originally a Vought facility. The workers unionized, and then got a contract that was worth less than they had previously. They committed the ultimate act of apostasy: they decertified the union (free election, y'know). I submit that the NLRB suit was punishment to those former Vought workers for their heresy.
Arthur, those higher wages for some translate to higher prices for others. They also make it difficult to compete in world markets. Along with those higher wages come inefficiency and featherbedding.
DeleteAs for the free ride argument, believe it or not, I am receptive to that, but only to an extent, but would be more yielding if unions were not so coercive. Some employers would also prefer that all employers are members, for a variety of reasons. However, if membership is arranged by goons sticking check cards under people's noses, sorry, I'll stick to my RTW stance.
Also, your refusal to argue with me includes dodging the coercion issue.
Here's another item: whenever an R is inaugurated, he issues an executive order that Federal contractors must post a notice that union members can request that the political portion of their dues not be withheld from their pay. When a Dem is inaugurated, unions ask that the requirement be rescinded. So, the guarantors of employee rights oppose notifying their members of those rights.
DeleteAnd and another thing re coercion: Obama's PLA's that require union membership on large Federal contracts. That discriminates against 6/7 of the construction work force. That's "discrimination," got it?
Thanks for the explanation, Stab. Can certainly understand why you harbor animosity towards unions now.
DeleteI'm not sure how I feel about the coercion factor as I've never been forced to join a union; however, I am regularly reminded not to engage inor encourage union activities.
I do contend that unions are shrinking not growing in the U.S., and that U.S. workers real wages have fallen with the decline in unions.
This real wage decline may have more to do with Nixon stepping off a plane in China in 1972, and the rise of the internet more so than to the decline in unions.
As union membership continues to decline our elections will become ever more purchased by the plutocrats with their Superpacs, and the plutocrats don't care at all about the working people; where as, the unions might care a little bit about the working people form which they coerce dues.
@Stab's 5:31pm: I am uninformed in all things unions, but I don't turn a blind eye to coercion. I remain open to the possibility of union representation IF employers, or contractors for the employers, operate with wanton disregard for the fair compensation, safety and well being of their employees. I don't mean UPS workers' unions; I mean tobacco farmworkers unions. In this instance, IMO, there IS no comparison to ultrasound exams, voter ID checks, or ANY kind of card check, because farmworkers have ABSOLUTELY NO representation. Not since Cesar Chavez.
DeleteI will not apply for a UNIONIZED job that pays $10/hr, for instance, if I've worked at a non-union job in the same industry that also pays $10/hr. My take home pay would be reduced by the amount it takes to pay the union dues.
Interesting analysis, Wordly, particularly about the Chinese, whose entrance into the world economy is probably the driver for lowered wages. Unions simply refused to adapt to change, along with their corporate adversaries, and factories closed. And yes, then the Internet . . .
DeleteI would note, Wordly, that plutocrats are spending on both sides, and must at least ask for money. Unions have their money handed to them, with no accountability to the ones who pay them.
LaSombra, are there not laws governing treatment of employees? Can the workers not organize? With whom would they negotiate? This is not an issue with which I am familiar, but it sounds a bit like economic self-determination, sorta like the card check that you dismiss.
DeleteStab, I can't say much more about unions other than to give my own opinions of when good faith collective bargaining could prove to be beneficial. Farm workers in the notoriously low-paying agricultural industry would greatly benefit from union representation.
DeleteIn other words, migrant workers don't pay union dues.
Delete. . . and I don't think I'm being dismissive of card checks, I just don't understand your associating it with everything repressive.
DeleteStab, sorry about your father's misfortune. I knew there had to be something personal here. Did he report the attack to the police? What happened next?
DeleteOn other fronts, give me an effing break!
"Unions simply refused to adapt to change, along with their corporate adversaries, and factories closed."
Really? How would you then explain the wholesale closings of tobacco, textile, furniture, etc factories in the great union free Right to Work state of NC? Nonsense! It's called corporate greed.
"Unions have their money handed to them, with no accountability to the ones who pay them."
Really? I guess the big corporations allow their employees, from whom their huge profits come, to vote on how to allocate political contributions. Laughable.
Had to split this into multiple parts...I guess the website reflects the short attention span of today's users.
DeletePart 2:
Union violence: "...(there have been 4000 incidents of union violence since 1990--not all these folks are idealists)..." If that were true, you would find it on the front page of the New York Times.
Since there is no legitimate organization which maintains such statistics, I know where this came from, the same place all such figures come from, the National Institute for Labor Relations Research...a right wing anti-union outfit whose website is filled with lies and misinformation.
Their union crime database is a joke, made up of thousands (I think around 9,000 since 1975) of unverified news reports from around the nation, many of them duplicates from multiple sources.
You can search their database to find out how many SEIU members committed violent crimes in Phoenix in 2007. Most likely you will find a bar fight between two guys, one of whom was an SEIU member, over some girl. Union violence? No, testosterone violence.
They are so eager to smear unions that they even have an exhaustive database listing embezzlements by union employees, as if union members are any different from anyone else. There are about 20,000 embezzlement convictions each year in the US. According to the NILRR, union members turn out to be about as honest as most. If you want to see where the embezzlement hotbed is, look to your local churches.
Part 3:
DeleteCard check: Was a part of the original National Labor Relations Act of 1935, enacted in part to try to stop the wholesale use of goons and thugs and paid killers by big business against labor organizers.
The NLRA provided two avenues to unionization...a petition signed by 30% of workers leading to a secret ballot election, or cards signed by over 50% of employees, also leading to a secret ballot election. The exception was than in cases where employees could demonstrate labor law violations by the employer, the NLRB could order the employer to accept the "card check".
To give an idea of how dishonest employers were, that method succeeded over 600 times between 1935 and 1947, when the real war on labor began with the Taft-Hartley Act. President Truman vetoed the act, stating that it represented a "dangerous intrusion on free speech", but was overridden.
Both methods, secret ballot and card check, are subject to intimidation by both sides. Since employers control all modes of communication within a company, they have a huge advantage. They can force employees to attend anti-union meetings, or even more insidiously, "invite" select employees to one-on-one meetings with supervisors, where more subtle threats can be conveyed behind closed doors. And they can freely fire any supervisor who shows any sympathy for union organizers, specifically provided in Taft-Hartley. And management spying is a part of the routine.
I know about this from personal experience when a union tried to organize the workers at a textile company where I worked as an executive trainee. Since I spent much of my day out in the mill, I was "asked" to spy on the workers. When I declined, I was "told" in no uncertain terms that I would be fired if I didn't. So I agreed, but never reported anything. When a suspicious exec asked why, I just said "I guess they're onto me." They bought it...even tried to recruit me years later to return.
Either way, it's six of one, half dozen of another.
Companies like Google, NuStar Energy, Whole Foods, Marriott, American Express, General Mills, Apple and Microsoft annually make the list of "Best Places to Work". If all American companies actually cared about their employees, there would be no need for unions.
OT, interesting reply. My wireless is out due to my incompetence at moving it, so down to iPhone, will respond later.
DeleteBTW, embezzlement has been a notable problem for the goonocracy aka SEIU.
Well, yes, wireless can sometimes be a problem. I get all my internet connections through ClearWire, which for the most part is excellent, and usually totally mobile.
DeleteBut there can be an occasional glitch. Since I currently live with a foot in four different places (yes, the anti-christ, the cloven footed goat) sometimes weird things happen.
The other day my connection went down in Chicago. I called and they said, "Oh, we've got you!" "Really?" I said. "Where?"
Well, they "had me" in W-S, two locations, and at my suburban Chicago home, but not where I was downtown.
That was soon fixed, but I guess we have to ask ourselves "Where are we really?"
As to SEIU embezzlement, I'll match you case for case with church scandals within 50 miles of your home.
DeleteApparently,those sweet little church secretaries are just vacuum cleaners for other people's money.
It's the unaccountable, bloated plutocrat cranks like Adleson and Friess who are really looking out for people like me.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, Israel (esp. the Likud) can do absolutely no wrong, and joking about women putting aspirin between their legs for birth control is up there w/ Carlin and Pryor for laughs.
Actually it was the Catholic School Nuns who taught the young ladies to "hold a St Joseph aspirin" between their knees in moments of temptation as a precaution.
DeleteAnother reason why I'm Anglican.
DeleteBest to you, WW.
Right back to you Arthur. Myself, I am a "slip out the back door" Methodist.
DeleteHa, ha...haven't heard that one in a while.
DeleteOnce in a great while my grandfather got strong-armed into attending church. He always sat at the end of the back pew, right next to the door. When the preacher looked down to read the text, my grandfather was gone again, just like Dubarry.
One wonders why churches don't put the doors behind the preacher.
In the Anglo-Catholic tradition we call it "hitting the rail"...get communion, leave, and make it back home in time for the kickoff.
DeleteWe sometimes called it- making it to K&W caffeteria before the Presbyterians. Years ago you know.
Delete