Hypocritical
Good grief, how hypocritical the Journal is. First you criticized House Speaker Thom Tillis for giving his staff raises ("Tillis breaks word on staff raises," June 15); now that he corrects the problem by letting staff go, you criticize him again ("Disorganized speaker tosses employees aside," July 20). Will nothing he does make you happy?
EUGENE WILBURN
Winston-Salem
Redistricting
So because of redistricting, Nathan Tabor will not be running for office. Vernon Robinson is backing away from running for office. And state Rep. Larry Brown will probably lose his seat.
This redistricting sounds like a good thing to me.FRANK MELTON
Winston-Salem
Leading by example
If congressional Republicans are so hot on cutting costs, why don't they lead by example?
How about:
- Giving themselves a substantial pay cut.
- Taking unpaid leave.
- Closing their cosy little private health-care clinic.
- Closing their private gym.
- Giving up the low-priced cafeteria.
- Closing the bargain-priced barbershop.
- Applying the same rules for retirement pensions that regular people live by, namely only getting a pension after working 20 years instead of just a few.
Let's get something straight that they don't seem to get: Social Security has not added one cent to the deficit. It was designed that way by Franklin D. Roosevelt. We pay for it with our payroll deductions, and the people who administer it are paid with those same payroll deductions. It is not broke and even without changes can pay full benefits until 2037.
It actually has a surplus of $2.6 trillion in government bonds. The problem is, the government has borrowed those bonds and is obligated to pay them back. We need to raise the cap on payroll deductions so that people making more than $106,800 a year pay more into the fund.
ELIZABETH L. SANER
Kernersville
Our current readership
Congratulations! You have effectively ended all online comments and conversations on The Readers' Forum ("To the readers," July 12). Facebook is a product for the young and not your current readership, which is still trying to figure out smart phones and other devices. Carry on without us!
HAROLD COLLINS
Kernersville
LTE1: I plead ignorance on the doings in the Speaker's office.
ReplyDeleteLTE2: I agree with this LTE, and also agree with O. T.'s comment elsewhere re redistricting: "Legislative districts should reflect the common interests of the voters in those district. A quick look at the current districts tells us that that is not the case. It is all about party politics, whether administered by Republicans or Democrats." He is correct. Until gerrymandering is done away with, redistricting will always disenfranchise some people. It is time for the current party in power to rise above politics. As with the last party in power, it will not happen.
LTE3: You get what you pay for. We do not pay these people enough. I agree re removing the Social Security cap. Also, the Social Security trust fund should off-limits as far as the general fund is concerned. A long-range budget plan should include starting to repay Social Security.
LTE4: Good comment on the face of it, but those who have gone to the trouble of signing on to the Readers' Forum can sign on to Facebook. It isn't that difficult. Wishing to remain anonymous is another matter, which prompted this site into existence, thanks to Wordly for the idea.
Harold Collins...AMEN BROTHER!
ReplyDeleteMs Saner...some good ideas, though them thar SS bonds be a tricky thing. The year 2037 is a junk year as any year is beyond the first year when it comes to Government years as projections. The funds you mentioned mask our deficit annually much the same way if you emptied your IRA or 401k and put the funds into your checking account. Suddenly your current account balance would be very nice. Additional idea for you...since those SS bonds have no intrinsic value where they lay in that file drawer in West Virginny, why not offer those in gradual batches to the open bond markets so they can have some actual current real dollar value and gain real dollar interest?
ReplyDeleteGood AM, WW!
ReplyDeleteWould selling those bonds lead to cries re privatizing Social Security? If my question is outlandish, I'm not surprised. My understanding is deficient in this area.
Hey Stab. That would probably come from the usual political sources as control over the politics of SS is part of the underpinning of their political power. Since politicians have seen fit to tap these "sacred funds"...I believe the cries from certain quarters are phony. As long as these SS securities are kept in instruments that our own Treasury uses, then there should be no real problem. They could also vary the length on the bond-90 days, 2yr,10yr etc. Just a political panick problem. After the fund is on more solid footing, a part of it can be placed into things like highest grade corporate debt.
ReplyDeleteStab...update clarification re SS Treasuries etc. SS is currently invested in US Treasuries and have claim on ongoing revenue to the Treasury Dept. Hence SS checks will be paid like any other debt obligation. What the SS funds do not take part in is the full range of Treasury offerings : Treasury Bills, Notes and Bonds. The differences being the terms-- months and years of the instrument. Healthy corporate debt instruments could be added later to improve the overall return. Me typing too fast after a long night.
ReplyDeleteMs Saner, the wealthy already will pay into SS far more than they will ever receive. There are many who didnt work the required numbers of quarters(40 I think)during their life to qualify for SS so there is this thing called SSI they can receive instead of regular SS. I think Dire Straits wrote a song titled "Money for Nothing" that describes this quite well. I wonder if Ms Saner would consider paying those who worked very little during their lives American or un-American. What really seems un-American to me is that around 49% of taxpayers pay zero in federal income taxes while the top 10% pay some 70% of the income tax bill.
ReplyDelete"the wealthy already will pay into SS far more than they will ever receive."--depends on how long the wealthy person lives, how long they earned the high income, and when they start taking benefits. I wouldn't shed many tears for the wealthy if the income threshold is raised or a means test is initiated. My late uncle, who was a person of means, just gave the check to my aunt for spending money each month.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the top 10% paying some 70% of the tax bill, they also own 90% of the wealth. No matter how you slice it, any percentage of 0 is still 0 so the lower half not paying taxes makes no difference. The number of people making an income that exceeds the threshold for paying taxes has to increase dramatically for any serious debt reduction to take place.
"What really seems un-American to me is that around 49% of taxpayers pay zero in federal income taxes while the top 10% pay some 70% of the income tax bill."
ReplyDeletethe top 10% payed in
1999 66.45%
2000 67.33%
2001 64.89%
2002 65.73%
2003 65.84%
2004 68.19%
2005 70.30%
2006 70.79%
2007 71.22%
2008 69.94%
(National Taxpayers Union)
So that's nothing new. My question: Would you raise taxes on the 49% of taxpayers who owe no federal income tax?
interesting..my 2nd post replaced my 1st post. Let's try again.
ReplyDeleteLTE 1: The raise criticism was fair, but employers are free to hire and fire at will. Being criticized in the press is part of the job of being a politician.
LTE 2: That is definitely a positive aspect of the proposed districts. Unfortunately, I'm realistic enough to realize I won't be seeing districts drawn that will force each rep to at least pay some attention to the 80% who are not TB's.
To add to Buffcoach's question, if taxes were raised on those 49%, would it even make a difference? As I mentioned previously, any percentage of 0 is still going to be 0.
ReplyDeleteLTE 3: The suggested cuts wouldn't even amount to rounded numbers in the debt. As WW correctly pointed out, SS is part of the Treasury obligations to be paid out each month, however the Treasury is looking at having only about half the money it needs to pay its obligations for August. With the BB'ers moving into retirement and a lingering high UR, an increase in the income ceiling or some sort of means test may be necessary in the future.
ReplyDeleteand the AGI for the 50% <$33,048
ReplyDeleteLTE 4: I do wish an alternative to FB had been used for authentication so I could post on my work breaks. The comments have dried up, but I suspect that has more to do with the loss of anonymity as well as work place site restrictions. Not sure why Mr. Collins thinks FB is only for the young and is difficult to use. Just enter your email address and some data and you're in.
ReplyDeleteBuff I'm glad you posted the figures to validate what I posted. Buff and dotnet, if I were king once one zero's out their taxes then thats it, you cant get back more than you paid it. True this practice is not new and it has been going on for quite awhile, so? Just because something has been happening for a past period of time does not mean it has to continue forever. If the practice of giving "refunds" past zero were discontinued yes dotnet it would make a difference. This is why I am liking the idea of repealing the income tax and replacing it with a national sales tax. That way everyone, no matter their income level pays federal taxes. dotnet, we tax income...not wealth. Income happens over a short period of time where ones wealth most often is obtained over a period of many years. Often those with high wealth have years where their income is not so high.
ReplyDeleteyes, but would you raise taxes on the 49% of taxpayers that now owe no taxes?
ReplyDeleteRaise the tax "rate", no. I have no problem with a tax payer taking any and all tax deductions they are entitled to, no matter what their income level. But I would stop the practice of paying a refund past the point where the wage earner reaches zero taxes owed.
ReplyDeleteAs posted earlier on the Journal website, a new study released in January shows that an average couple with a joint annual income of $89,000 who retire in 2011 will have paid $614,000 into Social Security and will receive $555,000 in lifetime Social Security benefits.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that Social Security is some kind of welfare is ludicrous. Most people, not just the rich, pay more than they get.
I see that my beloved brother robby boy is a bit confused about the whole tax thing.
ReplyDeleteNo one is suggesting that we tax wealth, which has little to do with income. The suggestion is to raise the tax on individual income for the highest earners. And please don't argue that that will cause job loss, because it won't...the trickle down theory died a long time ago except for those still living in the past.
A national sales tax is foolish, and will never be passed, because it is regressive in that it taxes lower earning people at a higher rate of their gross earnings than it does the high earners. As it is, the "progressive" tax rates that we now have have so many loopholes for high earners that they pay only about 15% of their total income in taxes, while the middle class pays at 22-24%.
OT and I agree on something-"The idea that Social Security is some kind of welfare is ludicrous." That is about the only statement you've made that I can and do agree with. OT I dont think I said we should or would tax wealth, for the record and to be clear, I am against any idea of taxing wealth. OT you may be right in that a national sales tax will never pass, but that doesn't make the idea "foolish" or even wrong. I do agree all income should be taxed at the same rate whether its "earned" or "unearned" income. That way those who live off investments which are taxed at a much lower rate will pay the same rate as everyone else. Income should be income.
ReplyDeleteGov Scott Walker (WI) signed a voter ID bill this spring and now he proposes to close 10 DMV offices that are within Democratic districts.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear what is going on with the voter ID nonsense. This is not a local movement, but was cooked up by the national Republican party.
ReplyDeleteThey know that they cannot get out enough votes to defeat the President in 2012, so their strategy is to attack the most vulnerable part of the Obama base, the poor and uneducated.
For those who blithely try to make it sound like getting a picture ID is as easy as falling off a log, sorry, but you are wrong.
The first action will be to acquire a certified copy of one's birth certificate. I doubt if the average supporter of voter ID knows how to do that.
If you were born in the county of residence, you must present yourself at the local register of deeds office (many mistakenly go to the clerk of court, so waste time and money getting there), convince them somehow that you are who you say you are, then pay a fee, on average $10.
If you were born elsewhere, you will have to either go there or do the transaction by mail, which means jumping through more hoops and paying more. Most require that you submit a photocopy of your driver's license, which means that over half a million registered voters in NC would be SOL and have to find another way to convince those distant authorities of who they are.
Either way, the state will have to pay for this because Federal law is unequivocal. Such a cost would be akin to a poll tax, explicitly forbidden.
The GOP legislators in Raleigh have claimed that the cost of providing these voter IDs would be about $2 million. BS. Try about $5.5 million just for certifed birth certificates. And we have not even begun to consider the cost of processing all this.
Anyone who has had to have a driver's license renewed lately knows that the lines are long at the DMV offices. I'm not really interested in your personal story of how you (or even worse, your fictitious "friend") just walked in and got it done in 15 minutes, that is either extraordinary luck or purest fiction.
So we would have to add quite a few people to the DMV roster just to handle a one-time load of over 500,000 "new" applicants. Most of the estimates that I have seen have put the cost at over $50 per applicant. Let's be conservative and say the subtotal would be about $25 million, making the running total over $30 million.
That is just the one-time cost. Thousands of new voters turn 18 in NC every day, so the ongoing cost would be significant as well.
The real irony is that the whole process would be meaningless, because there are millions of people already running around with phony picture IDs. All you need to start the process is a phony Social Security card which can be purchased anywhere in the US for $20-40. And once you've got the card, unless you commit a serious violation of the law, your chances of getting caught are near zero.
Both major parties will do whatever it takes to win an election, because the stakes are so high. Voter ID is just another scam in a long stream of scams that go back to the founding of the Republic. Speaking of which, isn't it interesting that this issue is suddenly so important? We've been getting along pretty well for over 200 years without voter ID.
The poor and uneducated as OT described already have photo ID's as one is required to participate in many if not most all govt assistance programs and to receive medical care. The left's opposition to voter photo ID is just there red herring as they want as many to fraudulently vote as possible.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, my beloved brother robby boy is wrong. The IDs issued by Social Services to their clients do not include a picture and thus would not meet the requirements of the voter ID bill. Medicare/Medicaid cards do not include photos either, so no picture ID is required to obtain medical services.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that my beloved brother robby boy educate himself a bit before throwing out all this unenlightened BS.
When my beloved brother robby boy can PROVE any allegations of substantial voting fraud that was not committed by Republicans attempting to suppress voter turnout, I might actually listen. Good luck.
I should add...watch how my beloved brother robby boy backs and fills on this...or simply disappears for the day...only to return on the morrow to repeat the same BS as if this discussion never happened.
ReplyDelete" in many if not most all " What that says is you have no idea.
ReplyDeletedon't need to show photo ID for food stamps either.
ReplyDeleteCorrect, Buff, and good to see you back in the fray.
ReplyDeleteAnd lest anyone start pontificating about the lack of photo Id in this area, my Blue Cross/Blue Shield card is not a picture ID, nor are my outsourced vision and dental cards blessed with pics.
I mentioned a few days ago that the last time I was asked for a picture ID was several years ago when I needed access to the Federal Building. Since the Constitution guarantees all of us access to our government, we were able to negotiate a resolution that did not involve my showing any ID at all.
In Iran, the penalty for just walking down the street without an official ID is somewhere around 80 lashes with a bull whip. Think about that, you lovers of Islam.
I'm still here but I do have to sleep and have other things to do and I'm not backing down from anything. While the medicare card may not have a photo when one goes to obtain medical services the hospital or doctor's office asks for a photo ID to verify the person trying to use the card is actually the person who is entitled to the benefit. Otherwise someone could just "lend" their card out to be used by anyone. No Buff I have a very good idea, I said "many if not most all" because if I had just said all(which I do believe all who receive govt assistance already have a valid photo ID)you would have claimed you know the one person in the US that doesn't have one, so I said "many if not most all" so as to have all the bases covered.
ReplyDeleteO.T I remember your "story" about your going into the Federal Building w/o showing a photo ID and at the time you didn't mention its was several years ago. You made it sound as if it was just days from when you posted your "story" and I do remember some calling your story nothing but a lie. Insurance cards are not ID's but if you go to WFMC or Forsyth hospital you do have to provide a photo ID to be scanned into the system so in the future they can verify the card holder is the same person receiving the service.
ReplyDeleteOTR I dont care if you listen.
ReplyDeleteGood evening, folks! Good discussion going.
ReplyDeletedotnet, I see you had problems. O.T. has pointed me to a different place to set up a comments message board, but I haven't figured it out. I'm thinking about setting up my own site, so I can make it more hospitable. Ran one some years back. We'll see. Time is a bit short.
Voter ID: The comments here today, along with some in previous threads, provide fodder for thought.I have been a hardliner in favor, but I actually do read arguments presented (don't try to sell me on card check, though), and some are attention-grabbing.
The spectre of ACORN still looms, however. Vote fraud can be a bit of a problem. It was a factor in the 60 election. And it occurs a lot closer than Cook County.
President Obama speaks on the deficit stalemate in a few minutes, to change the subject, which he should. I'm watching a science series, but Jamie Dupree will be tweeting, so I will be following the speech bit by bit.
Hey Buffcoach!
ReplyDeleteDid you see the FB chat message I sent?
OT you said-"watch how my beloved brother robby boy backs and fills on this...or simply disappears for the day...only to return on the morrow to repeat the same BS as if this discussion never happened." First off just because you dont like what I say does not make it BS. I could say much BS comes from your posts such as your story about going into the Federal Building. Who knows what the real story is because it changes everytime you post it...BS? I'll let people decide for themselves.
ReplyDeleteSecond, Sure I will have the same opinons and beliefs on the same subjects the next day...when I'm right why would I change my mind?
Curiosity got the best of me. Watching the speech.
ReplyDeleteOh, my poor dearly beloved brother robby boy just doesn't get it. None of this has anything to do with whether I LIKE anything that he says. It simply has to do with whether what he says is the truth, which it is not.
ReplyDeleteThe state board of elections did a study of the 6 million or so legally registered voters in the state and discovered that somewhere around 560,000 of them, almost 10%, do not have any type of picture ID. That is a fact, not robby boy's imagination.
Those 560,000 CITIZENS of NC do transactions and receive services, including medical care, every day. I repeat...they have NO picture ID. Is that sinking into robby boy's reptilian brain?
I never said when my encounter at the Federal Building happened. It doesn't matter whether it happened a few weeks ago or in 2007.
The point is that it happened in the era of the Cheney/Bush "Great Fear for Cowards" era, when the vast majority of Americans morphed from the "land of the free, and the home of the brave" to the "land of the formerly free, but willing to sell their freedom for temporary safety and the home of the not so brave after all."
What do you think are the odds for an Al Qaeda attack on robby boy's pitiful suburb? I'd put my money on the moon being made of green cheese first.
And, of course, there is no chance that my dearly beloved brother robby boy will ever change his mind about anything. To do so would require actual thinking, and gathering actual facts, something not in vogue in robby boy's neighborhood. As Socrates once said "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Hey, Stab, not watching the speech. I'm sure I'll hear all about it soon enough. Listening to Taj Mahal going fishing and LMAO.
ReplyDeleteBetcha' goin' fishing, all the time
Baby goin fishing too
Bet your life, your sweet wife
catch more fish than you
Hi O.T.!
ReplyDeleteNot familiar with Taj Mahal (well, am familiar with the structure in Agra), but smiling at the poetry.
Watched the the speech for a bit, then started researching setting up a web site. It's been years since I did it. What, FrontPage is no more? Back to the science show.
And lest we all get depressed by all of this, my dear brother robby boy will be redeemed on his earlier comment on comedians not needing to resort to vulgarity to be funny. Here on YouTube, in Nashville, pastor Joe Nelms delivers the greatest NASCAR pre-race prayer ever. No christians were harmed in the making of this video:
ReplyDeletehttp://digg.com/news/sports/best_nascar_prayer_ever_video
You can see his smokin' hot wife and other mentioned family members here:
http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20110725&t=2&i=466009808&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-07-25T221658Z_01_BTRE76O1PWC00_RTROPTP_0_NASCAR-PRAYER
Sorry OT nothing in my posts are untruthful.
ReplyDeleteThe structure in Agra is pretty dadgummed impressive...what woman could resist such a tribute? But if you give me a choice of architecture or the human incarnation, I'll take the human any day, one of the great blues singer/songwriters of all time.
ReplyDeleteCaught him by accident in LA in the '60s, didn't see him again until the '80s. Now have seen him at least a dozen times, including in Hawaii doing what he calls "the hula blues". Latest here in W-S at the Millennium Center and old Ziggy's. That last night was so SRO packed that everybody there got to be really good friends.
Probably his masterpiece is a vastly expanded tragic remake of Fats Domino's "Goin' Down to the River", but "Fishin' Blues" always cracks me up, because it is a classic blues piece, thus double, even triple, entendre.
I've seen him do it at least 7 or 8 times, and it is never the same, always some little diversion that wasn't there before. Ironically, in the best version on YouTube, you don't even see him, because some crazy fisherman used the song to accompany his fishing trip pics. I even love that part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyda_e2TaPg
Oh my poor dear brother robby boy is SOOOOO wrong.
ReplyDelete"Sorry OT nothing in my posts are untruthful."
Try this:
"Insurance cards are not ID's but if you go to WFMC or Forsyth hospital you do have to provide a photo ID to be scanned into the system..."
NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...NOT TRUE...
Hundreds of people are treated every day at WFBMC and Forsyth without showing any kind of picture ID because THEY DON'T HAVE ONE.
Methinks that my dearly beloved brother robby boy may have some sort of, you know, DEFICIENCY, since he cannot seem to grasp that these folks simply DO NOT HAVE any sort of picture ID. Poor thing.
Just realized that I shortchanged Taj Mahal in my initial contact...that would be 1967 in LA. For the life of me I cannot recall the name of the club, but it was not one of the nicer places...maybe a sort of fight or two broke out, but that was, and still is, to some extent, my favorite kind of club. If it doesn't have an "edge", it may not be worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteMy boot camp instructor in San Diego was a brother and a big blues fan, so sent us there via Pacific Southwest Airline. There might have been 4-5 white people in the club that night. But nobody gave us any problem, because the focus was on the music. The fights were local.
Taj's band included Ry Cooder and the Pointer Sisters as backup singers, even though they were far and away the most famous folks there. The music was simply mind blowing. "Ain't nobody gonna steal my jellyroll!" Pretty heady stuff for some naive southern white boys. We might already have been Lenny Bruce fans, but we were still feeling our way into the black blues world.
Many of the tunes ended up on an album released later that year called "Taj's Blues", which I still think is his best album, although "Dancing the Blues", released in the early 1990s, is also great. My most recent girlfriend and I used to dance to "Dancing the Blues" a couple of years ago, then collapse onto the floor or bed and just laugh for an hour or so.
That's the effect that Taj mahal has on people. The blues have their dark moments, but a great blues singer will end up making you laugh and glad that you are alive.