Saturday, August 27, 2011

Winston-Salem Journal LTE's SA 08/27/11

Good AM, folks!

The Journal is once again commendably prompt in posting the Saturday LTE's.

Homeless female veterans
I find it a little hard to understand why these female veterans would find themselves homeless after getting out of the military ("More homeless female veterans in N.C., S.C.," Aug. 18). I am going to presume that these ladies were enlisted personnel and not officers.

Did the service not give them any training on how the real world works (as the military brochures state)? Surely they cannot expect society to provide them with free housing, clothing and three squares a day as they received in the military.

Yes, I realize good jobs are hard to come by, but they are out there. One just has to keep looking. And as meaningless and mundane as some jobs may be for now, a job is a job and will provide some income.

When I returned from Vietnam 44 years ago I had the same place to live as I did before I entered the military. However, I had no job to return to. I found a basic job to start out with and went on from there. Plus, I took advantage of the GI Bill (which is still available for all returning servicemen) and went on from there.

Your story makes it sound like the ladies had no civilian life before they enlisted and were living under a rock.

GARY GONYEA
West Jefferson

Thinking ahead
The water in Salem Lake has been lowered to rebuild the dam. This lake is very shallow; most of it is 2 to 3 feet deep.

Water is always a concern. We can't increase the size of the lake, but we can increase the depth. Surely the soil is rich and has value as topsoil to local farmers. Increasing the depth will add a huge amount of stored water and create a new, richer ecosystem. The city will generate more profits from fishermen as a deeper lake will actually hold more and larger fish. Digging out the lake will eliminate cleaning up all the vegetation that has overgrown the lake bottom, and eliminate using herbicides to accomplish cleanup. Then incorporate silt retainment that will stop the lake from filling back up and will make it clear and pleasing rather than dark brown 80 percent of the year. Let's think ahead and take advantage of the dam being rebuilt.

JOHN S. CRAWFORD
Kernersville

Prayer and passage
In the Aug. 17 letter "Perry's prayer," the writer mentions that Gov. Rick Perry's prayers did not seem to work, with the 30 U.S. troops who were killed in Afghanistan, the high debt rating of our nation being lowered, there's still a drought in Texas, and we still have a socialist president. The writer goes on to write that prayers are not necessary. The only prayer that this writer could offer is found in Luke 18:13: God be merciful to me, a sinner.

And to another letter on the same day, "Another appeal," with Forsyth County commissioner Walter Marshall saying, "I can't support anything that says the government should be run by the Bible and not the Constitution," Marshall wasn't the wise one on the board but the foolish one.

Where does Marshall think the laws of this land come from? Read Isaiah 33:22: "For the Lord is our judge; the Lord is our lawgiver; the Lord is our king; he will save us."

REID JOYCE
Winston-Salem

The height of irony
We have reached the height of irony in our community. What would Jesus do? Winston-Salem's metropolitan area topped the national list of metro areas with trouble feeding their families due to dire economic circumstances ("Hunger study calls area worst in U.S.," Aug. 17).

Winston-Salem's right-wing "Christian" fanatics have pledged hundreds of thousands of dollars to appeal a court decision that disallows sectarian prayer at Forsyth County commissioners meetings. Surely Jesus would spend such funds feeding the hungry, especially given the fact that people can choose to gather for 24 hours straight and pray together for free prior to entering the public meeting.
The issue isn't about prayer; it's about forcing their version of prayer down the throats of others. Perhaps we need a lot less prayer and more help for our needy neighbors.

SIMONE M. CARON
Winston-Salem

35 comments:

  1. People have been 'hating' on white males for years now, I guess it's the Christians' turn. Everybody else is in some type of protected class.

    It's strange that Congress starts every session with a prayer and nothing has been done about that. Maybe the ACLU doesn't really want the issue going all the way to SCOTUS.

    Pittsylvania County in Virginia has joined Forsyth County in fighting the ACLU over the same issue.

    We'll see what happens.

    You can force children to learn about aberrant sexual behavior in public schools, but you can't force them to listen to a prayer. That sounds a bit odd to me.

    I still blame Billy Clinton for a lot of this stuff.

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  2. http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=mhx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=yes

    there is the radar loop for Newburn/Morehead City for anyone interested

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  3. Hello Bob and Bucky!

    Thank you, Bob, for that radar map. Looks like the winds have subsided somewhat as Irene grinds over coastal NC.

    Bucky, would you like to see children compelled to listen to a Muslim prayer or a Wiccan prayer, assuming Wiccans pray? Compelling participation in a Christian rite is the same thing.

    I blame Bill Clinton for a lot of things, too, but am unsure how he figures in the prayer discussion.

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  4. Hey Bobby. I'm a little sore from yesterday. Hitting those verbal softballs out of the park can exert those muscles a bit.

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  5. I'll take a stab at your comment Stab. First of all, I noticed how you just skipped over my comment about forcing children to listen to information about aberrant sexual practices.

    Let's run the numbers Mr. Stab. There are approximately 249,000,000 people in the U.S. that claim some type of Christian affiliation. There are approximately, and this number is high because I'm assuming 12% of the US population is gay/lesbian etc., 36 million people that engage in aberrant sexual behavior.

    Therefore, who are you more likely to offend by each situation?

    Note: The U.S. has approximately 300,000,000 people.

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  6. Stab....'foul' balls don't usually go out of the park, but mine do.

    I like your thinking though.

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  7. Hi Bucky.

    I believe the US population is closer to 310MM, as a matter of fact. I will take your stats re religious affiliation as facts, but the principle is the same, regardless of the numbers.

    School children are informed about a variety of aberrant behaviors, genocide for example. As for the allegedly aberrant sexual practices, there is no constitutional prohibition against such instruction, so your mention was irrelevant, IMO.

    Also, your definition of "aberrant" might overlap my definition of different or diverse. I do not consider the gay folks whom I know to be aberrant.

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  8. When you pitch a little league batter, batting in a little league park, softballs are indicative.
    " You're built too low. The fast ones go over your head. Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em. Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball. Eye. Ball. I almost had a gag, son. Joke, that is."

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  9. Stab....I think you've been listening to too many liberal pundits.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    I defy you to show me where it says that people can not pray at a government meeting or at a school in a clear and explicit manner.

    It's all a matter of interpretation. If you are a liberal, you think it does, if you aren't, you think it doesn't.

    I think you need to redescribe your political leanings as a liberal who leans right on rare occasions.

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  10. Bobby....too funny. Speaking of comedy, I think Janet Napolitano is a muppet posing as the Secretary of Homeland Security.

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  11. LTE 1. Good point about the GI bill, but these women may have come from broken homes or foster care, I do not know them to say, thus their previous life before the Military may not provide them with good reference points. Also the military knows they do a terrible job preparing soldiers to reenter society, they are working to fix the problem, but it takes time.

    LTE 2. An interesting idea. I am curious to know what the water is for other than rec? is it a drink water reservoir? Could it be used as such?

    LTE 3. America is not a theocracy, that's the main reason why our forefathers left Europe. We have a Republic that specifically states you can worship freely, but the price of that is you can not force the general populace to participate in your chosen religion. It's called the First Amendment.

    LTE 4. I agree, we should give as much as we can to help the needy, as that is WWJD. I'm sure someone is going to call you a hypocrite for not supporting exclusive Christian prayer before public meetings, they need to read the Word of God as spoken by His Son. Matthew 6:5-15.

    Stab and Bob those comments are too funny. But I would advise against attempting communication with Buckly. As far as I can tell he may have never graduated High School or he gets his jollies from verbal abuse (both giving and receiving). Let him have "batting" practice. We own the league.

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  12. Bucky: a liberal who leans right on occasions? I'm sure my liberal friends gagged at that description of me. Note my hardline positions on unions and gun control sort me out to a very poor liberal.

    As for prayer and government meetings, I have said this several dozen times: people are free to pray in many places. Prayer sanctioned by a govermental unit is imposing religious ritual/rites on people. That many people share the same general faith is irrelevant.

    The USSC over the years has extended the protection of the 1st Amendment to state and local governments. Appealing the decision against prayer at commissioners' meetings is futile, a waste of someone's money (in the end, we taxpayers will pay part of the tab), and a disservice to the citizenry in general.

    If people want to pray in public, they have many options, especially tomorrow, as church doors will be open all over the county.

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  13. Since the majority of the citizens of Forsyth County are Christians, I doubt they would share your view, Stab.

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  14. LTE1: I do not know these women's situations enough to comment directly about them except to say that LTE writer is generally correct. We are talking about specific individuals who may not fit the general mold.

    LTE2: Sounds like a good idea, but I wonder how many dumptruck loads hauled away it would take to increase the depth to a level sufficient to make a difference. Probably a lot of loads to be removed. Andrew: Salem Lake has been the source of city water, with the Yadkin River also supplying, IIRC.

    LTE3: I believe JC had something to say re "Render unto Caesar." But, we all can quote Scripture for our own purposes. Come to think of it, Andrew noted JC's remarks re public prayer, pretty clear cut.

    LTE4: Agree with this LTE.

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  15. Bucky, it doesn't matter if the majority of FC doesn't share my view. The Constitution was written to protect people from the tyranny of the majority. Tyranny of the majority is what drove folks to America, to escape persecution for not adhering to the Church of England.

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  16. Right on Stab. Also I would note there exists a large variety in christian belief systems Bucky. Just because I identify as Christian does mean I am an "evangelical" and support the County's case. Jesus was quite specific that prayer for the sake of recognition of peers is a sin against God. The lawsuit is a direct action to receive special recognition for praying from Man, not God . The propagators of said lawsuit and those who support them are therefore sinners. God's word, not mine.

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  17. Stab....you didn't answer my challenge. Where specially does the Constitution say you can't have prayer before a government meeting? I answer it for you since you can't seem to do it. Nowhere.

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  18. I realize both of you know more than everybody else in the county. But the county commissioners are politically elected. If they didn't feel the majority of the people in Forsyth County felt that they should appeal the decision they wouldn't have done in my opinion.

    However, since both of you seem to know more than everybody else, and you can read the Supreme Court's mind, you tell me.

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  19. And Andrew...where in the world did you get that jibber jabber from? Dotnet....certainly not from the Bible.

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  20. Bucky, you are right. That is not specifically enumerated in the USC. Much law is not, being interpretations rendered by Federal Courts, including the USSC. The ability of Federal Courts to interpret the Constitution was established in the case Marbury v. Madison.

    As for your comment re commissioners and being elected: that is pandering, something I usually attribute to Walter Marshall, but not this time.

    I can't say for Andrew, though he is indeed well informed, but I do not know more than everyone else. I am deficient in overall knowledge compared to OT, Bob, WW, Sharon, et al. Where do you stand? I also occasionally admit error or change a position based on facts. Sometimes this compels me to discard a long-held bias or belief. How about you?

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  21. I think the SCOTUS should decide the issue once and for all. I think Forsyth County is doing a service for the entire country.

    I have no idea how the Supreme Court is going to rule. I'm glad the rest of you do, that way I can slam all of you if you're wrong.

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  22. Bucky, this issue has been heard and ruled upon by the USSC. They aren't going to hear it again. It's established law. This whole business is nothing but political posturing, like the stupid flag flap in King.

    By the way, I'll be singing in my church's choir tomorrow at 11. You are welcome to come to the service. If you're lucky, you will not hear my offkey singing.

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  23. Arizona v. Miranda was also established law, and the Supreme Court took up the issue of when a person has a right to a lawyer. I tried to tell your buddy, O.T., the intellectual idiot, that the Supreme Court can rehear legal issues that may come up over time.

    Let's see what happens. You can wag your finger at me in the future if they don't take it up.

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  24. Thanks for the invite...I don't think I'd like a Methodist Church based on what I've heard from Kelly Carpenter.

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  25. OK, Bucky, one finger wave v. one slam. Fair enough.

    I am sufficiently uninformed so that Kelly Carpenter is unknown to me. Invitation still stands. Bob came and visited a year or so ago, btw. My Sunday School class enjoyed his participation.

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  26. To Bucky: No one has been hating on white males. No one has even been hating on males. We HAVE been hating on IDiots, though (emphasis on the "ID"). And HERE'S a challenge for you: Please QUANTIFY "majority" re citizens of Forsyth County being Christians. I doubt you can, but I hope you're up for a challenge.

    To Stab: Although the TU/TD options do not exist in this, your blog, I heartily give you a TU for the clarification of "abhorrent" behavior.

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  27. Sorry if this ends up a double post. See 14th Amendment Bucky. First Amendment has applied to state and local governments since the 1930s. also read Mathew 6: 5-8. Jesus talks about prayer, and specifically that prayer for the sake of recognition by peers is against God. The prayer before the meetings may or may not qualify, but the Lawsuit does for sure. My interpretation, but I feel that it is grounded in the readings I have done of respected Biblical Scholars. Dotnet is your version of the Internet I guess. As for the Commissioners doing this for the people of Forsyth County because we want it is irrelevant, as it is not an issue for government, unlike the economy, or the homeless, or a plethora of issues that fall under government domain they are ignoring. They are just pawns for the extreme right group funding the suit. Maby now that Virgina county is getting in on the deal they can back out and actually govern the county instead of preach to it.

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  28. Hi Anonymous! Welcome and thank you for your kind words. One comment, though: I guess it is my blog, as I operate it, but I would rather those who post to consider it as a creature of shared ownership. All viewpoints are welcome, in spite of my indeterminate place on the political spectrum. That indeterminacy bothers me not. I am a lay student of quantum mechanics. Indeterminancy is a fact of quantum life.

    Andrew, dotnet is a poster of apparent moderate political orientation who articulately opines here and in the "Journal's" Readers' Forum.

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  29. Anonymous: aka LaSombra. I've not been posting much lately. I'm not as tech savvy as I would like to be so I've been avoiding posting, but I just couldn't let another day go by without countering some of Buckman's IDiocy.

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  30. What fascinates me is that anyone actually bothers responding to my dearly beloved brother Bucky Bucktooth.

    His knowledge of history, government and politics, constitutional law and most everything else obviously ends well before the cave man era.

    When you cite the 14th Amendment, he goes "There are more than ten???"

    As to the business of homeless female veterans, the record of treatment of all veterans is a shameful one. I spent several years recently trying to force the VA to help a friend of mine, a decorated Marine Gunnery Sergeant, who was living in a rooming house and being fed a deadly drug cocktail by VA doctors.

    Right out of boot camp/BITS, his first experience as a Marine included being buried under the rubble of the Marine barracks in Beirut. His later experiences might be classified as going downhill from there, yet he rose to the top enlisted rank in the Corps, and was twice recalled from retirement at the request of one Colonel and one General for "special projects" in the Bush wars, both of which contributed greatly to his PTSD problems.

    The gov sucks these folks in to stand between us and the "bad guys", but when they are used up, they cast them aside. All Americans should be ashamed of the way that our vets are treated.

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  31. To O.T.: This is my own observation here, but has anyone even made age comparisons of the soldiers of our current war(s) vs those of the Vietnam war?

    NINETEEN!

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  32. This means that VERY FEW of our soldiers have learned how to wipe their NOSE, much less learn how to pick up where they left off on the few LIFE SKILLS they learned before they left us!

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