Nothing but Sum It Up responses today. I note a few Readers' Forum posters' replies are posters, including the response of our own JDR.
Sum It Up:
The Sum It Up question from Sunday was: Do you think the tea party is effective?
* * * * *
DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS
* * * * *
MELODY THOMSON
* * * * *
The tea party has been very effective in mobilizing the citizens among us who have been brainwashed by Fox News. It is backed financially by the Koch brothers, who are as far right as one can get. Certainly it was effective in lowering the U.S.'s credit rating, to our detriment. So, yes it is effective, and it is also despicable.
ANNE N. PAISLEY
* * * * *
Were the Iron Age, Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution effective?
Like many awakenings, there is no single point of reference to follow in effectiveness. There is no man-led "tea party," as handy a label as that is for some to attack. It is an idea with many voices and no single guiding hand, but minds of common sense and frustration, with a system seemingly out of control, no matter the "proper" party involved. Yes, the ideas are effective, if only because so many people believe in them. But then, isn't that true of all successful movements?
JACK C. LITTLE
* * * * *
MARY H. MURPHY
* * * * *
Yes, the tea party is effective, but not in a positive way. No good leadership. They want to win the 2012 election at any cost.
ELIZABETH R. ERVIN
* * * * *
VICTORIA WEEKE
* * * * *
DAVE DANNER SR.
* * * * *
The tea party has introduced a new awakening for all Americans. Its effectiveness has resulted into a better insight into our government, politicians and patriotism.
SUSAN WARREN
* * * * *
ANNE GRIFFIS WILSON
* * * * *
Well, it must be pretty effective, we're still talking about it.
KAM BENFIELD
* * * * *
The tea party has some good goals, but its plans are unworkable; kind of like, "We're driving the interstate at 70 mph in the wrong direction. Let's ignore the Mack truck on our left and jump the Jersey barriers to get in the opposite lane now ." It would seem better to drift right, take the next exit (which might be a few miles down the road), make a couple left turns (honoring stop lights at the overpass), then accelerate smoothly to merge back on the interstate, headed the other way.
JIM WHEELER
* * * * *
HENRY FANSLER
The Sum It Up question from Sunday was: Do you think the tea party is effective?
* * * * *
The tea-party movement represents a growing number of Americans who object to the destructive "progressive" policies emanating from both sides of the political aisle — dating back to Presidents Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. Come November 2012, we shall see just how effective the tea party will have been toward reversing the unprecedented big-spending, big-government policies of George W. Bush and the accelerated, expansive policies of Barack Obama.
DEBORAH S. "DEB" PHILLIPS
* * * * *
Not yet. But, if the tea party can pave the way for members of the coffee party, tequila party and whatever other beverage you like to join them in office, then they will have been effective. It will take many groups working together to effect meaningful and positive change in the way government operates.
MELODY THOMSON
* * * * *
The tea party has been very effective in mobilizing the citizens among us who have been brainwashed by Fox News. It is backed financially by the Koch brothers, who are as far right as one can get. Certainly it was effective in lowering the U.S.'s credit rating, to our detriment. So, yes it is effective, and it is also despicable.
ANNE N. PAISLEY
* * * * *
Were the Iron Age, Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution effective?
Like many awakenings, there is no single point of reference to follow in effectiveness. There is no man-led "tea party," as handy a label as that is for some to attack. It is an idea with many voices and no single guiding hand, but minds of common sense and frustration, with a system seemingly out of control, no matter the "proper" party involved. Yes, the ideas are effective, if only because so many people believe in them. But then, isn't that true of all successful movements?
JACK C. LITTLE
* * * * *
The tea party is very effective in revealing that its primary goal is defeating President Barack Obama in the 2012 election.
Even if its actions break the country apart in the process, so be it.MARY H. MURPHY
* * * * *
Yes, the tea party is effective, but not in a positive way. No good leadership. They want to win the 2012 election at any cost.
ELIZABETH R. ERVIN
* * * * *
Has the tea party been successful? You betcha. Founders and money backers, Charles and David Koch, are now each worth $17.5 billion apiece. They will be worth more when they get those pesky "government regulations" and those unions out of the way and not to have to pay those messy taxes.
This is not a grass-roots revolution. This is a well-financed plan to keep the mega-wealthy unencumbered. Read about it before public education is made a thing of the past.VICTORIA WEEKE
* * * * *
The tea party is very effective, just as rats are very effective in spreading diseases.
DAVE DANNER SR.
* * * * *
The tea party has introduced a new awakening for all Americans. Its effectiveness has resulted into a better insight into our government, politicians and patriotism.
SUSAN WARREN
* * * * *
Many of us once found the tea party laughable and absurd, but it appears this group of ideologues is gaining traction, effectively thwarting our democracy as we know it. The very thought of Rep. Michele Bachmann's winning the straw poll vote in Iowa is no longer amusing, but rather a genuine concern. Why would American voters want to elect a president or legislators who wish to dismantle the government that has served our country well?
ANNE GRIFFIS WILSON
* * * * *
Well, it must be pretty effective, we're still talking about it.
KAM BENFIELD
* * * * *
The tea party has some good goals, but its plans are unworkable; kind of like, "We're driving the interstate at 70 mph in the wrong direction. Let's ignore the Mack truck on our left and jump the Jersey barriers to get in the opposite lane now ." It would seem better to drift right, take the next exit (which might be a few miles down the road), make a couple left turns (honoring stop lights at the overpass), then accelerate smoothly to merge back on the interstate, headed the other way.
JIM WHEELER
* * * * *
The tea party is effective in making our Congress ineffective.
HENRY FANSLER
I think the Tea party's collective heart is in the right place, more or less, and I approve of it eschewing stands on social issues. However, its all-or-nothing approach to the debt ceiling negotiations led to an insufficient deal that led to the credit downgrade. Elected Tea party members must show more flexibility than they have so far.
ReplyDeleteIs the TEA Party effective? "Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master." Dwight D. Eisenhower. Let's hope the TEA Party is not too late.
ReplyDeleteMr. Fansler, you are precisely right. The Tea Party has been effective in making the Obama Socialist Movement/Government ineffective, and that's precisely what is needed at this point in history.
ReplyDeleteWelcome back, Bucky.
ReplyDeleteWe did need to deflect President Obama's agenda, but the economy itself and the initial focus on HCR also contributed to bogging that agenda.
Good afternoon folks!
ReplyDeleteSum it up: Wish the question was more specific. There's no denying the TP has had an impact on the political process. As JDR points out, their plans just aren't workable. The fact that so many self-described TPer's opposed the debt ceiling being raised, desire immediate huge spending cuts and oppose any further action by the govt or fed reserve to add liquidity to the markets reveals an alarming lack of fundamental knowledge about how our economy works, how budgets work and about the current state of the economy. While their proposed solutions for shrinking govt spending and reducing the money supply would have been appropriate for the 1970's when there was high inflation, it would be a disaster in this deflationary economy. The problem is that there aren't enough people working and those who are working are more focused on paying down debt instead of spending. The result is a reduced demand for goods / services which translates into a reduced demand for workers. With fewer workers, there are fewer fed revenues and higher expenditures for unemployment services. Fewer revs + higher exp results in a larger deficit. Creating more jobs will result in more revs and lower exps which equates to a smaller deficit. Finally, fiscal responsiblity begins with paying your bills which requires having enough money in the bank in order to pay them. That's what the debt ceiling is about. Anger may be a great motivator, but it is a very poor decision maker.
dotnet...why do you think we have a deflationary economy and just what is deflating?
ReplyDeletehey ww..a deflationary economy is marked by too little money chasing goods as opposed to inflation where there's too much money chasing goods. When a business sees the demand for its goods / services slipping, it needs to either generate new sales by decreasing prices or decrease expenses to meet the lower revenues coming. If the business's price point is already near it's cost of production, it has no choice but to lower expenses with labor. Since labor is usually the highest cost, and the demand does not justify the number of workers, there will be a reduction of workers. This is what we have seen for the last couple of years. People are not spending due to being unemployed or fear of unemployment. Businesses are unable to raise prices to make up the revenue, so they must reduce prices to increase demand or (what most are doing) reduce expenses, chiefly labor. A barometer to use for deflation/inflation is the fed reserve rate. If it's high, it means the FR is concerned about inflation and trying to slow the economy down to keep it under control. If it's low, then the economy is too slow and needs to be stimulated. Right now, it's at 0...and the economy is still showing signs it's slowing down. Not the deflationary spiral of the 1930's due to policies that preserve capital when banks close, but it's bad enough.
ReplyDeletecontd..there are staple goods that people will always buy regardless of circumstances such as food and gas. These goods tend to be immune to the above described systematic deflation (or systematic inflation for that matter). Their costs are far more volatile since they are impacted far more by the weather and market speculation. That's why you will see gas and food go up although the CPI shows no inflation. Those items are beyond the control of the FR
ReplyDeleteDotnet for President.
ReplyDeletedotnet..a good summary of some of our troubles from a micro economic view! How about this from a macro economic view: use the term "deflating" as opposed to deflation. We have had 4 bubbles defate-or burst-in some cases...real estate,stocks,private debt market and discretionary spending. All of these bubbles have been entertwined and supported our economy for decades. The housing-real estate- bubble burst a few years ago, taking the others down too. The Fed has been pumping massive stimulus into the economy-QE1 and2. This is preventing the housing bubble from fully deflating and maintaining a falsely valued stock market. Private debt and discretionary spending are down as you say. The Fed is empty of arrows. The money supply is now 3 fold higher in our economy and still no economic recovery. This increase in overly devalued dollars is building a wildly out of control dollar bubble. Too many dollars with nowhere to go. You know what comes after that. We have 2 bubbles yet to pop: the dollar bubble which leads to the mightiest bubble in world history---the national debt bubble. On our present path, both will burst in a few years.
ReplyDeleteSharon, I thought I heard you!
ReplyDeleteHi Whitewall! I may not be here for long as a thunderstorm is rolling through and my lights are flickering like a Christmas tree!
ReplyDeleteOn your last posting, I fear you are correct.
I might splurge on that 1-year dehydrated emergency food supply Costco started selling recently.
Sharon, hope you survive the t-storm; hence my discussion of yesterday.
ReplyDeleteHey Sharon - in the words of Gen Sherman "if nominated, I will not run, if elected, I will not serve". I'd be dead of a heart attack or stroke within 6 months of taking office. I can't stand that heat, so i'm staying far away from that kitchen.
ReplyDeleteHey ww - It would be interesting to see a comparison of the amount of money pumped by the Fed over the last 3 years vs. the drop off in bank lending over that same period. The QE's involved buying Treasuries which is govt debt, so most of it went to pay for the govt stimulus programs. Corps. are reported to be sitting on ~$1.2T in cash, so there is a lot of cash sitting out there. With the dollar being the world's standard bearer, and the population not getting any smaller, it's difficult for me to say whether or not a dollar bubble is being formed. If the world decides for some reason it no longer wants dollars, then there will absolutely be a dollar crash. But, what will replace it? The US is the gorilla of the world economy, therefore, it's very difficult to see how its currency could be replaced by any other currency. As far as the debt goes, there are a myriad ways of addressing it with improving the jobs picture at the top of the list.
Hi guys, I survived the storm...
ReplyDeleteThe people who would be very good at the job of President are smart enough to know it's a thankless and largely impossible job.
Shame.
The Tea Party is so new and so ill-defined from within, that everyone who is drawn to it, interprets something different.
ReplyDeleteI'd liken it to a potential new romantic interest sparked from a generic online profile. "Fun, good-looking professional, loves to read, travel, go to movies and spend holidays with family." ... Of course, who doesn't say that? Yet every one who reads it builds a different picture in their mind, and the vagueness is exactly what's most appealing.
The TP (pun intended) is the new political romance everyone is looking for, yet everyone who seems to call themselves a TP'er seems to interpret what a TPer stands for just a little bit (or a lotta bit) differently.
I mean who doesn't want to eliminate waste in DC? Who doesn't want to do things differently?
The TP has successfully said what it wants to change. Now it must articulate how and what it's going to do. Quite frankly, it's patently obvious the TP doesn't yet know.
The TP must now build from within, or it will fall flat like a bad first date.
Dotnet....that would be an interesting side by side. Much of the worlds assets are priced in dollars and therefore any of those assets are being devalued bit by bit until there is little or no underlying real value to support them. The devalued dollar finally crashing taking all asset values down with it as well as world economies. No currency can replace it now as well as there is no way to unravel the dollar from all asset classes. In a decade or two I believe there will be a new currency to "replace" the dollar after the collapse and world economies are put back together. This might just be a basket of healthy currencies, plus some gold, used strictly for international trading with each nation keeping its own soverign currency. If our dollar bubble bursts, our ability to make debt payments will be gone. You are right about an improving economy being job one. QE1 and 2 might have done some good but the successful legislation passed in 09 and 10 plus Sarbanes/Oxley put a roof over any domestic job growth. That is why biz and money are just sitting from fear and uncertainty. Remove these and we start to grow. Failure to remove these, well....
ReplyDeleteSharon...a good take on the TEA Party. That just might be the beauty of it though--- not rigid in definition and not in love with every pol that whispers "I'll call you". You know it has potential when it is hated by the governing class of each party plus the beltway scribblers and cocktail curcuit. Ain't all bad.
ReplyDelete