Friday, January 13, 2012

Winston-Salem Journal LTE FR 01/13/12


Elected officials
The writer of the Jan. 9 letter "A small percentage" is upset that we're paying someone to plan our sidewalks and bike lanes.
He doesn't like that a minority of people use these and essentially claims that the planner and those who hired him are "a small group of insiders" who "are running an expensive program to fit their vision of what the city needs." He says such practices lead to "inconvenience and expense for the majority of the people."
Frankly, in the budget of a city the size of Winston-Salem, the $47,000 salary he objects to is chicken feed.
And "a small group of insiders"? That must mean the officials we elected to represent us and our interests.
want our leaders to have vision. I'm a grown-up, and I don't expect to like every decision they make or to use every service my taxes pay for, but I expect our leaders to know more than I, and I expect them to love Winston-Salem and want to make it a better place.
If the letter writer doesn't like a department, fine, nobody says he has to. But to object on the basis that he didn't vote for it is an unreasonable and immature complaint. Personally, I don't have time to vote on every little policy and hiring decision the city makes. That's asking for "inconvenience and expense for the majority of the people."

JAMES T. FULLER
Winston-Salem
Sectarian beliefs
As I began reading the story "New hope for character education" (Jan. 7), I tried to keep an open mind. After all, not every religious person is crazy, and not every church concentrates on "you're all going to hell." I understand that some children have a difficult time in school and could use both some personal attention and some ideas about their own worth and personal values.
But former Wiley Middle School principal Ed Weiss tipped his hand in your story when he described the previous incarnation of the program as "part Scripture" and said the program was "Trying to bring the Lord into their life a little bit."
Teaching values — which people of all religions and no religion have — is one thing. Indoctrinating children into religious belief is another. I realize that parents give permission for their children to attend the program, but I would not be surprised if they did not understand the implications — if they were only told that this would be a harmless practice to teach their children to behave better. Nobody associated with the program is going to explain to parents that it involves sectarian beliefs and practices with which they might disagree.
If these parents wanted their children to have "church teaching," they could take them to church.
I predict the program will be challenged. I predict it will fail — as it should.

MACK FERGUSON
Winston-Salem
Stingy attitude
I don't ride bicycles, but it doesn't bother me that other people do. It doesn't bother me, when I'm driving, to slow down a bit and pass them carefully. The world doesn't have to revolve around me.
I am so sick of this selfish, stingy attitude exemplified by the letter "A small percentage" (Jan. 9) that says we should have no shared resources, nothing of note, nothing advanced or progressive except for whatever bland things the majority wants.
I want to live in a good city, one that is recognizable and different from Greenville, Rocky Mount or Kinston. I want to live in a city that is vibrant and alive, a city that enriches me, with interesting things to see and do, with public space for music and arts, a city with people who are not stamped out of some cookie cutter but who have individuality. I want to live in a city whose citizens support it and make it exceptional.
We need bike paths and greenways, we need a new library, and we need more public art. This is a wonderful place, but it needs to be developed — by people with vision — or it'll just be a stink hole.
Whatever happened to civic pride?

RICKY S. PHILLIPS
Winston-Salem

52 comments:

  1. Still on Pacific time. Actually 6:31 am EST. My response was publish an hour and 15 minutes prior to Bob's actual posting the LTEs.

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    1. Just remember Wordly, it's never too early for liberals to hate people who disagree with their views.

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  2. Bucky, I'm pleased that you linked my link to Public Policy Polling. PPP is a NC based left of center polling firm that is uncannily accurate in predicting election outcomes.

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    1. I'm just finding it hard to believe that the polls are showing that the marriage amendment will pass. I'm going to vote for it because I believe it's consistent with the laws of nature.

      The reason I believe gays and lesbian want the word 'marriage' attached to their unions, is because they want to remove the stigma of gay and lesbian unions.

      A piece of paper or law, by themselves, have never changed a society's perceptions of what is wrong or right. I'll just cite abortion as an example. So, it's a waste of time to allow gay and lesbian marriages for that reason.

      I'm impressed with your assertion and the research you did to back it up Wordly. That's how you make a point and win debates with most sane thinking people. Of course, that group excludes at least a couple of people in here.

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    2. I'm surprised you can make a lucid point without denigrating someone. I agree with your points made re removal of gay/lesbian stigmas. IMO, though, the marriage issue is more of an issue of human dignity than it is removal of stigma.

      Re your statement "I'm going to vote for it because . . .": Are you saying that you are going to vote FOR the amendment to pass, or are you saying you are going to vote for the amendment NOT to pass?

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    3. Hag, only a liberal Democrat would have the nerve to come in here after what you did. You just love making a fool out of yourself don't you?

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    4. Laws of nature, lol. It's consistent with the laws of nature to steal food when starving too. Would you vote for that too, bucky? There are no GUNS in nature. So should we follow the laws of nature and get rid of guns too?

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    5. Goodness Gracious!!! All I did was voice an opinion and all the Hater Republicans come out!

      Oh, wait a minute . . . there's ONLY ONE Hater Republican here . . .

      My apologies to all other Republicans.

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    6. Typical HATER Republican response: more than able to talk the talk, but won't walk the walk if their life depended on it.

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    7. As always, Knothead rambles on about things that he knows nothing about.

      The reason that gays want the right to marry is so that they can have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples. It has nothing to do with any stigma, which is only in the feeble minds of the bigots. There is a far more widespread stigma attached to bigotry than there is to homosexuality.

      Marriage and civil unions are the exact same thing. You go to the county and get a marriage license...not a civil union license. You then can be married by a magistrate, a justice of the peace or a minister. It makes no difference to the state...all are exactly the same. The mumbo jumbo pronounced in a church has nothing to do with being legally married. And despite the loony thinking of the fumblementalists, the churches do not own marriage, the state does...which means that we...ALL of the people...own it.

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    8. Rush, since I own a portion of marriage, I am going to vote against allowing gays and lesbians to marry. Does that make you happy, you nitwit?

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    9. As with any comment from Knothead, it does not make me happy, nor does it make me unhappy, because it is inconsequential.

      But it does prove two things...that Knothead is

      1. A bigot
      2. Ignorant

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    10. Boy, all these sweetheart promises of how the two problem children were going to do better went out the window P-R-E-T-T-Y quickly!

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    11. Bucky, I'm glad you enjoyed the PPP link.

      Yes, PPP polling does indicate that the voters of NC are in favor of Constitutionally banning same sex marriage even though it is already illegal in NC. However, if everyone who has a friend, child or relative who is gay would vote against this amendment then it would be easily defeated. So all of us who count Bob as a friend should go to polls and vote against amending our Constitution to allow even more discrimination against people with different sexual orientation.

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    12. Wordly, I'm for civil unions for gay and lesbians. I've said it repeatedly in here. It provides all the legal entitlements that a gay and lesbian marriage would provide.

      The bottom line is that marriage is between a man and a woman. It will ALWAYS be viewed that way EVEN if the legal definition is changed.

      I've got only a few problems with the Rainbow people. If they wouldn't leer at me when I'm undressing in changing facilities, and they wouldn't bang in public bathrooms, I'd be okay with them. But they do bring a lot of baggage to society in regards to health issues, work place issues, and social networking. So, let's be honest, and leave the PC stuff at the doorstep of this forum.

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    13. P.S. I've got no problem with Bobby and Arthur. I guess they are the only two certified Rainbow people we've got in here. The two 'problem' children are Rush and LaSombra/Rielle/NancyDrew/theHag. We all know that.

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    14. The last time I promised ANYBODY ANYTHING, I got divorced. You actually think I would have promised anything to YOU? HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA,HAHA!!!!

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    15. I CAN'T imagine why you got divorced? You being so mentally keen and all.

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    16. HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAHA,HAHA, HAHA, HAH!!!

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    17. Note that Buck the Schmuck has reverted to addressing others ABOUT me rather that addressing ME directly.

      AGAIN.

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  3. LTEs 1 & 3. More on bike paths, public employee envy and "community vision" differences. Sad the many would begrudge a college educated employee a middle class salary for doing a job that enhances our community even if I would hate to loose my on street parking.

    LTE 2 Must have missed the article on Mr. Weiss. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of organized religion, but many societal values are taught by religious organizations too. Matthew 7:12 - "So in everything, do unto others what you would have them do to you..." is not a bad concept regardless of your religious beliefs. Regardless of the source, I believe we need a more civil discourse and there are many scripture references that can teach these lessons and I hope this is what Mr. Weiss is striving for.

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    1. Worldly: much of our societal values ARE based on religious beliefs, but there is a time and a place for everything (Eccl 3:1). By the time children reach the age of, let's say, middle school character and value should have already been embedded in them. There should be no need for Sunday School in public school. Even if character education is taught in school AT AN EARLY AGE, it should be reinforced at home.

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    2. The Golden Rule, as cited in Matthew, is not unique to the bible. It, in fact, predates the writing of even the old testament by many years and developed in many different cultures, including ancient Egypt and ancient China.

      In fact, virtually everything in the bible was taken from earlier cultures, from the creation myth to the flood myth to the death and resurrection of gods myth.

      So if one sets out to "teach" morals, there is no need to reference the bible at all. As I stated before, however, one cannot "teach" morals. Each child's personality, which incorporates moral values, is formed by observation and experience and stems from their parents, siblings, other relatives, neighbors and anyone else that they come in contact with. Much of that is set before they enter school.

      Once a child begins attending school, the most important influence on their character development is their friends. The old saying "Birds of a feather flock together" is all too true.

      This program is a waste of time and money.

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    3. Rush: I agree with your pre-bible statements, I just didn't feel like doing the research.

      We as a family may not set out to "teach" character but it is learned, whether from family or peers. Peers will have more of an influence as the child realizes (s)he can exercise free will.

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    4. I went back and read the article about character education. It's going to occur off campus and its seems many churches want to participate. Parents do have to agree that children may attend. While I would never agree for to sign for one my children to participate, I see little harm in allowing those who choose to do so.

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    5. On the other hand, can't wait to see what happens when the local Mosque or atheist group wants to provide character education too.

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    6. O.T. I always love your historical education on this and past forums.

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    7. The word the 'Bible' should be capitalized when refering to the book Rush. FYI

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  4. apparently this change was across the board. At blogger help there are a lot of questions about the new format.

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    1. I like the new format. Bob, you might be able to fix the time/date format in the dashboard. Beneath the "settings" tab look for "formatting". About the 5th option down should be the "time zone" option, hopefully you might be able to fix the time stamp there.

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    2. I like the new format too, LaSombra. I'm not an administrator so my settings tab doesn't have all the options.

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  5. Don't have a problem with character education and service requirements in public schools. Do have a problem with religious instruction in public schools.

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    1. Arthur, I agree. For all we know the one who is teaching our children in our public schools could be a deaconess in church but that deaconess is teaching character, not Sunday School.

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  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Thank goodness. It was probably a waste of words anyway.

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    2. Personal attacks, ouch . . . That('s) smart(s).

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  7. LTEs 1 & 3: Excellent statements by rational people. There are really only three kinds of people:

    1. Those who pitch in, get involved in the community, and work to improve it for the good of all. Without those people, we would still be living in trees and caves.

    2. Those who do nothing. They are not a positive force, but at least they are not a negative one either.

    3. Those who stand on the sidelines and whine and throw bricks. They are an anti-human negative force, thus useless.

    Unlike the attributes that we are born with and cannot change...race, gender, sexual preference, etc...we all can choose which group we join. It's your choice.

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  8. LTE #2: I am tired to the bone of so-called christians who think that they have the only answers when it comes to morality.

    Since humans invented themselves some 250-400,000 years ago, there have been tens of thousands of different religions...every tribe created its own.

    Today, there are still thousands of religions...with a stunning array of beliefs. But if you examine their "codes" of morality, you will find that they are virtually the same the world over. Christianity has no monopoly on any of that.

    I know a handful of christians who I would promote as positive role models for the rest of us. I know even more atheists and agnostics who fit the same standard.

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    1. I'd include Jimmy Carter on that list; actions speak louder than words.

      But I'm just a standard Episcopalian go to church on Easter and Christmas type. I can't match Deb Phillips-levels of devoutness.

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    2. Agree on Jimmy. I don't want to get into listing local people, but at the head of my list here would be my good friend Dr. Jack Noffsinger, pastor emeritus of Knollwood Baptist Church. What a man!

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    3. DITTO, Rush on your 1145hrs comment. BRAVO. Arthur, I would include Billy Graham in your list of "devoutness". The only thing Deb Phillips is devout about is herself.

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  9. It's interesting how our culture and country flourished under Christianity, but now that the hate mongering liberal Democrats have taken over, everything is going down the toilet.

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    1. What a moronic statement. Our culture and our country have never been under christianity. And I believe the most recent landslide downward started under that well-known born-again christian George W. Bush, who left behind two disastrous wars and a major economic crash.

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  10. Thank goodness we've got a few good moral Christians left, otherwise this country would be real trouble.

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  11. Johnny has a heart problem. He broke his wife's heart, I don't know why he expects people to worry about his?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-john-edwards-life-threatening-condition-15356361

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    1. Here's some interesting reading about the slimy Democrat, Johnny Edwards:

      http://news.muckety.com/2010/01/29/heiress-bunny-mellon-plays-unlikely-role-in-edwards-sex-scandal/24011

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  12. Evening folks! Seems the new format is a bit incompatible with my browser at work.
    LTE 1: "...to object on the basis that he didn't vote for it is an unreasonable and immature complaint." - Totally agree.
    LTE 2: The voluntary nature of the program makes it permissible to the courts. Proseltyzing should be kept out.
    LTE 3:"I am so sick of this selfish, stingy attitude..." - ain't that the truth! You also see it on various posts as well:"..it had better not involve MY tax dollars!" :P Please. It's called being part of the society in which you live. If you want to be your own island, then by all means, go buy your own freakin' island somewhere in the South Pacific and build your paradise of solitude there.

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    1. It works for me with Safari, Firefox and Chrome. Unless you have a ferocious firewall at work, you might be able to install one of them.

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